Aircraft retrieval systems (black box)

[richardg6paj]

Another hobby to look at is falconry, they loose birds and track them over dozens of miles sometimes, and the transmitters are super lightweight so the birds can carry them....

Tracking usually requires a yaggi aerial though....


Steve

Yes, I looked at these, but very expensive.
http://marshallradio.com/eu/european-falconry-products/european-falconry-transmitters
Works on 433mhz
Richard

[G60jet]

If you use an active rf tag it can go live when no RX input is received therefore the range can be drastically extended.

[ashutchy]

These look to be ideal but I';m guessing as I can';t seem to find a price for them they';re going to be expensive.

http://www.lotek.com/pinpoint-gps.htm

[flybywire]

If you use an active rf tag it can go live when no RX input is received therefore the range can be drastically extended.

But what about if it goes down within rf range?  How will it trigger? 

[barneyg]

Turn off your radio ??

[flybywire]

Yes, I looked at these, but very expensive.
http://marshallradio.com/eu/european-falconry-products/european-falconry-transmitters
Works on 433mhz
Richard

They certainly look the biz, but would it work from ground level, or a ditch?  I guess birds of pray would either be airborne, or in a tree, i.e off of the ground, but they certainly win on size/weight, if they are pricey, but as i say, in theory you would only need one.

[flybywire]

 

Turn off your radio ??

Doh!  Been a long day!

[mutley2]

My new 101% reliable aircraft retrieval systems, going to upgrade this weekend to a double knot and improve range with an extra ball of string  


sorry guys had to be done  ::)  ::)  ::)

[G60jet]

What about this http://www2.pmb.co.nz/blog/?page_id=338

[flybywire]

What about this http://www2.pmb.co.nz/blog/?page_id=338

I think that';s the one Richard pulled up, but yes, it looks promising.

[Andy7]

I think that';s the one Richard pulled up, but yes, it looks promising.

This looks great, and I think I can even come up with something better. Have been sourcing components and am quietly confident that I may be able to come up with something that will send the last known gps position to a phone app.

[flybywire]

This looks great, and I think I can even come up with something better. Have been sourcing components and am quietly confident that I may be able to come up with something that will send the last known gps position to a phone app.

Wow!  Sounds promising Andy, do you mean as well as UHF?  Or instead of?

[Andy7]

Wow!  Sounds promising Andy, do you mean as well as UHF?  Or instead of?

Current thinking is the black box sends out a UHF signal at the maximum uk legal power. This data has the latest known position from the flight GPS and some other stuff. The tracker has a UHF receiver which connects to your phone via Bluetooth, the app then uses the gps on your phone to guide you to your downed craft.

Meanwhile, it beeps and hollers!

[quadfather]

I have bought one of those TK102 GSM/GPS trackers some time ago and took it apart to see what';s inside.

These units are MediaTek based devices, with Quad-Band GSM/GPRS/Edge connectivity and GPS


External power is not used, but could be hooked up to a BEC.


As you can see it has a patch antenna so relies on being the right way up after a crash for best lock. I think the D7106 is an audio/video processor and probably being used by the mic.


And the proprietary connector. I received no cable with mine, so not sure what can be done with it.


Happy hacking.

[richardg6paj]

This looks great, and I think I can even come up with something better. Have been sourcing components and am quietly confident that I may be able to come up with something that will send the last known gps position to a phone app.

Yes,  Andy7 I like this one as well. I would have liked it on FM though as my handhelds will only do fm on uhf. Am does make more sense for a beacon. The other feature I like on the fmkit beacon is that it transmits 3 or 4 beeps with different power levels, so the closer you are to the beacon the more beeps you hear. Not sure if the new Zealand beacon has this feature. But it is certainly the right price. I think it has gps input. There is YouTube ad.

Richard

[richardg6paj]

My new 101% reliable aircraft retrieval systems, going to upgrade this weekend to a double knot and improve range with an extra ball of string  


sorry guys had to be done  ::)  ::)  ::)

Hey mutley you have a very sophisticated kite. 

Richard

[gb0wers]

May as well chuck this into the mix.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_transceiver
I';m not proposing using this device per-se, but the technology may provide inspiration.
I used to use one when off-piste skiing and we used to do practice searches. It was easy enough to find a transceiver buried in the snow in a rucsac in a football field sized area.
Graham

[flybywire]

Current thinking is the black box sends out a UHF signal at the maximum uk legal power. This data has the latest known position from the flight GPS and some other stuff. The tracker has a UHF receiver which connects to your phone via Bluetooth, the app then uses the gps on your phone to guide you to your downed craft.

Meanwhile, it beeps and hollers!

I slept on it last night, came to the same conclusion as above.  I suppose it';s kind of low tech meets high tech.  I wonder how do-able it is on a practical level?

[flybywire]

May as well chuck this into the mix.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_transceiver
I';m not proposing using this device per-se, but the technology may provide inspiration.
I used to use one when off-piste skiing and we used to do practice searches. It was easy enough to find a transceiver buried in the snow in a rucsac in a football field sized area.
Graham

Interesting they talk of Khz as oposed to Mhz, would that have longer range, or would it penetrate snow/rock better?
Also the digital technology sounds more ';inteligent'; than good old analogue, could this be harnessed easily and cost effectively, or are we getting into mega bucks here?

[flybywire]

Hey!  While we';re at it, why not add on a sonar pulse, to aid that ';lake retrieval';?!

[Andy7]

Hey!  While we';re at it, why not add on a sonar pulse, to aid that ';lake retrieval';?!

Actually, I did think about adding sensors as optional extras and one was a water sensor, so it can at least let you know it';s somewhere wet. :)

[Andy7]

I slept on it last night, came to the same conclusion as above.  I suppose it';s kind of low tech meets high tech.  I wonder how do-able it is on a practical level?

I think it';s VERY doable, and even probably worthwhile as a small commercial venture.
Prices are coming back from china now on 1km and 2km range radio modules and they';re looking very promising indeed.
Ultimately, if I';m going to be shifting more than 50 units a year, I';d build the radio module directly into the main pcb rather than a bolt-on.

[flybywire]

I think it';s VERY doable, and even probably worthwhile as a small commercial venture.
Prices are coming back from china now on 1km and 2km range radio modules and they';re looking very promising indeed.
Ultimately, if I';m going to be shifting more than 50 units a year, I';d build the radio module directly into the main pcb rather than a bolt-on.

Just to understand this more, are you designing the thing for production from a Chinese outfit?  Or are you adapting what';s already out there?  Obviously, if you make something successful, they will clone it.  I suppose some form of copyright would be unfeasible?

[Andy7]

Just to understand this more, are you designing the thing for production from a Chinese outfit?  Or are you adapting what';s already out there?  Obviously, if you make something successful, they will clone it.  I suppose some form of copyright would be unfeasible?

No, I';m just looking at the radio tx/tx modules for the prototype or short-order run. These are tried and tested and designed to be used in commercial products. They also make them for a couple of dollars a piece. They';re essentially break-out boards. There';s nothing stopping people from copy-catting what I';m doing, but I may look into some kind of patent or other... though I';m only really in it for the beer-money.
Ultimately, If this takes off (no pun intended) then I';d go for a totally bespoke PCB with the microprocessor, radio etc all in one. Id also be able to make the unit smaller, lighter and a little bit cheaper to produce.

[Andy7]

I may have largely solved the range problem.
The range is going to be pretty crappy when you';re upside down in a ditch of dirty water - BUT if the Black Box sends telemetry constantly (and it only needs to be a pip every 10seconds) then the mobile app will record your flightpath and lead you close enough to pick up a downed signal!
Also, if your flight GPS is still working (landed neatly, or just a plain fly-away) it can still try to send out position information which the APP will dutifully mark on the screen with a time-code. And no reason why your mates with their Black Box RX can';t also enter the password for your Black Box and help in the search too.

And... why no use it to record your flight paths to show off. And why not have it upload your paths to your PC, or to a website for the device to show the community. And why not produce 3D traces of your flight path just for fun... the possibilities are endless when you reduce this down to some simple electronics and a bunch of software.



... okay, MUST get some WORK done today.
:evil

[ashutchy]

I may have largely solved the range problem.
The range is going to be pretty crappy when you';re upside down in a ditch of dirty water - BUT if the Black Box sends telemetry constantly (and it only needs to be a pip every 10seconds) then the mobile app will record your flightpath and lead you close enough to pick up a downed signal!
Also, if your flight GPS is still working (landed neatly, or just a plain fly-away) it can still try to send out position information which the APP will dutifully mark on the screen with a time-code. And no reason why your mates with their Black Box RX can';t also enter the password for your Black Box and help in the search too.

And... why no use it to record your flight paths to show off. And why not have it upload your paths to your PC, or to a website for the device to show the community. And why not produce 3D traces of your flight path just for fun... the possibilities are endless when you reduce this down to some simple electronics and a bunch of software.



... okay, MUST get some WORK done today.
:evil

You make it all sound so simple Andy! If it turns out to be half as good as it sounds I think you';re onto a winner for sure. Well done that man. 

[Rafter]

My new 101% reliable aircraft retrieval systems, going to upgrade this weekend to a double knot and improve range with an extra ball of string  


sorry guys had to be done  ::)  ::)  ::)

I';m not very good at technical stuff so I';m very interested in this system.  Can you tell me:

1.  Is it readily available or do I have to order from you,
2.  Is it available in different colours
3.  Are fitting instructions included
4.  Is it self retracting or do I have to roll it up myself
5.  Do I re-solder any break in connection or just use a reef knot
6.  Is it single person or dual operation (I don';t have many friends)
7.  Will the extra ball be twice the price
8.  I have some left over washing line, would that do til I can order from you (it';s a nice blue   colour as well)
9.  Sorry I';ve asked so many questions but this may be the thing I';m looking for and it';s also nice to talk to you (see question 6)

Please reply ASAP (that means As Soon As Possible) as I have cash waiting. 

[flybywire]

... okay, MUST get some WORK done today.
:evil

No!  Please continue with the black box!!!

Seriously, I';m liking the sound of this thing, but it takes somebody with the practical knowledge like yourself to harness it all together.  Maybe throw the idea out to crowd funding if/when you get something that looks to be working?  I';d certainly be up for bunging some dosh into it, if it were done properly?
If it ends up as an out of box ';stick it on and turn on'; solution that anybody can use without a degree in electronics and a soldering iron, it';ll be a winner for sure. 

[Andy7]

You make it all sound so simple Andy! If it turns out to be half as good as it sounds I think you';re onto a winner for sure. Well done that man. 

Cheers guv';nor!
Well, 25 years making video games kind of hardens a person to seemingly tricky technical projects and taking a problem and honing it down to the simplest solution is a bit of a OCD hobby of mine!

If I can get decent quotes for the components, I';ll start taking serious feature requests and ask the vendors here who';s interested in taking some stock if it goes to market.
Of course, I';m gonna need a bunch of folk to help field-test the prototypes.

Don';t hold your breaths though chaps, cos unless I can get crowd-funding for the R&D time, it';s going to have to be done in what little spare time I have. Though TBH, I want one of these now, so there';s a little incentive.

[Andy7]

No!  Please continue with the black box!!!

Seriously, I';m liking the sound of this thing, but it takes somebody with the practical knowledge like yourself to harness it all together.  Maybe throw the idea out to crowd funding if/when you get something that looks to be working?  I';d certainly be up for bunging some dosh into it, if it were done properly?
If it ends up as an out of box ';stick it on and turn on'; solution that anybody can use without a degree in electronics and a soldering iron, it';ll be a winner for sure.

Okay. Challenge accepted.

I';m going to take a week to pull together some serious business-oriented notes on development costs, prototyping, testing and commercial manufacturing. I also need to then go and get CE certification if I';m selling this properly (it';s a stipulation of the first crowdfunding site I looked at and makes sense).

If I can make the figures work and there';s interest from people and vendors, then I might be able to justify it as a project that my company will take on.

If anyone wants to help out with tugging the sleeves of the vendors here then that';ll be a help. It can only work if there';s demand for a sufficient number of units... what that magic number is, I';m going to find out in the coming days.

... oh and a reminder that there';s NO GUARANTEE OF SUCCESS here! It might come to nothing, and there';s still a chance that it';s a stupid idea and simply won';t work! (nah, it';s a peach!)