Police and 'criminal activity'

[Richlizard]

A few weeks ago a friend of mine who lives the other side of my back garden had this letter posted through his door.

This is not in my street and as far as I am aware, nobody in my street received one. I would guess everyone in his street did.

I am guessing this may have been aimed at me. I don';t know of any other local fliers. Before I knew the full extent of the blurred rules, I would often fly in my back garden. It is 100ft long and backs on to another 100ft long so made sense to fly around here a little. Now I limit it to gains settings or gimbal testing, etc.

But of course, since seeing this letter I have stopped and gone to local fields.

I was tempted to email this police lady, but was advised not to as it would bring attention to myself. But I would love to ask her exactly what criminal procedings would be taken against me.

Any thoughts?

[BJT]

You haven';t broken any laws, but the police like to think that they make the rules and not parliament.

[HowDoIfly]

Go ahead and contact her for advice, it';s what she';s offering. However, it is from a PCSO and they are known to not know the law very well.

If you';re concerned about revealing yourself (it';s a valid concern) you can enquire anonymously, I';m sure it';ll be respected and not used as an obstruction to getting said advice, especially if you make clear your intent is to neither upset the neighbours or the law but to help keep the peace.

But reading between the lines, you';ve been spotted and they don';t like it. If you don';t seek advice and fly again (with or without camera) expect a knock at the door. Your anonymity will not be assured and you better know your rights (and wrongs), just in case.

[guest2350]

while I respect people worrying about privacy, what get`s me is they contacted the police without knowing any facts.
people like that really grip my ****** 

[teslahed]

Email back anonymously asking for more information and stating that you are not flying your quadcopter with a camera attached when you test fly it in your back garden because you have no interest in recording boring residential scenes - you are interested in doing artistic stuff out in the countryside.

Specifically ask what the concerns of your neighbours are so that you can address them. If it';s just the camera thing then that should be simple to resolve. If it';s health and safety and your garden is big enough - promise to keep it under a certain sensible altitude in the future and make it clear you never fly over other people or their stuff.

If you';ve been shooting up to 50 meters or more and getting an ';overview'; from high up then i can see why your neighbours might be concerned. If it';s a built up area - fly high enough and if something goes wrong it wont necessarily be your garden you crash in - another real concern.

If you have just been hovering at 5 meters or so to test stuff in a safe and responsible way without any kind of recording camera equipment attached then i don';t see that you have done anything wrong and you could make that point to the police women involved.

[Jumpy07]

There are no specific laws covering cameras on multis... and none that would stop you filming anything from the air. (other than anti terrorism etc)

Privacy and quality of life is a very grey area and would need to be pursued under European Law..and its a very grey area.. there are no specific laws protecting privacy in UK that could be applied that I am aware of. Nor has there been a test case in UK as yet under the European legislation...

They could however prosecute you under aviation law for not flying within the ANO... ie: flying over people, property roads etc.. not under your control etc etc

There are some other laws that could be applied at a stretch.. bottom line is if they want to charge you with something.. they probably will find something that fits..

[DarkButterfly]

I would contact her or go to see citizens advice.

You';re flying in your own back garden on private land, airspace however is not private, so as far as I know no laws have been broken.

I think the issue is to do with the camera being attached, not the flying machine itself.

I';m no legal expert, best thing is to find out.

[Ross]

IF it was me I would leave it and fly somewhere open. It wont draw attention to yourself.
As Jumpy says..there are a number of laws that they can use

Old Chinese proverb say..
Don';t stick head in wasps nest..get stung!

Hope it works out.  Sometimes people are a pain in the ass.

[nub]

busy body';s, pretty poor that who ever it is felt the need to contact the police instead of approaching u personally, i';d continue to fly in MY back garden, fek them.

bring it on i say!

[Chami82923]

That doesn';t look like official police stationary to me! I would ask questions, you have not done anything illegal (from my understanding of the law).

I think jumpy had a similar run in here:-

http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php?topic=5736.0

Unless some one has a particularly secluded garden where they can expect total privacy (sunbathing in the buff) then being overseen from a neighbours window or similar (quad) should be fine. Although zoom lenses etc might be frowned upon!

Try running round your garden with your camera on a long stick, and see if you get any more complaints! It amounts to the same thing!

Callum

[nub]

i agree with Callum i think you should run about your garden with a camera on a stick, that would be class

[The.Quadfather]

I would do this:

attach a small black box which looks very similar to a small camera but has some other useful function ie don';t make it look like it';s meant to be a decoy
When you do get approached, show it them to them (without sniggering too much) 
repeat this several times until they don';t bother approaching you ....

this will obviously only work with a key-ring type camera

[teslahed]

My approach to people that accuse me of spying is to point out that my quadcopter is festooned with LEDs and lit up like a christmas tree. I make the point that it';s tiny and small and that i fly it acrobatically for my own entertainment like some kind of roller coaster ride and i give them my youtube channel address so they can see for themselves. Then i ask them if they really think i';m spying and just look at them until i get a response.

So far i haven';t had any serious concerns.

But basic psychology - do it in a way that';s friendly, polite and (if possible) slightly humorous. If you ****** someone off they will tend to oppose you without a second thought. If you present someone with the right information in the right way they might listen.

[robshaw]

i agree with Callum i think you should run about your garden with a camera on a stick, that would be class

Would be even better if you did it in your birthday suit...... Would make for some hilarious letters if nothing else.

[Hands0n]

Would be even better if you did it in your birthday suit...... Would make for some hilarious letters if nothing else.

I';d suggest go and see her personally:

http://youtu.be/aKfbSHW9uGA

[doofer]

How very dare you spy on people! That is the Govts. job. Only the Police are allowed to film the Public in surveillance Britain. Everyone with a camera is either a terrorist or a paedophile until there';s some incident and the Police suddenly appeal for anyone with Mobile Phone footage to help...

Next time you see a Police Helicopter over your neighbourhood, phone that WPC and report it for flying about with its cameras and searchlights ';spying'; on you.

Criminal activity my arse.

[The.Quadfather]

^^ well put doofer :)

last time I checked it was ok to take photos as long as you were not on private property and not taking pictures of sensitive installations etc
now obviously it';s probably not a good idea to use a drone/copter to spy on people as that will only highlight the negative aspects and antagonise the general public

watched a repeat of QI the other day where it was mentioned the attempts of certain US states to stop the progress of the early motor vehicles
cue rockets sent every mile, and should you meet a horse, you should either cover the vehicle to blend in with the scenery or dis-assemble and hide it !

[Hands0n]

Where photography is concerned the Police and their various "agents" are fairly ignorant of the law and make fairly wild interpretations on baseless presumptions.  The thing is, as a regular member of the public, we are not well positioned to discuss this with these compliance officers at the time.  Often they will become outraged and belligerent at being challenged, and with the law of might on their side they are able to, and will, use physical force to subdue any challenge.   Subsequently, in court, or settled out of it, the truth will become apparent and the photographer will be released from all charge.  But by then the photographer has been majorly inconvenienced.

We do not expect the compliance team to be aware of each and every single law of the land. But they would do themselves a very great favour if they just took a different approach towards photographers who are generally a law-abiding bunch.  And also it would do them well to examine their own short history in this respect.   They want the public';s trust but seem to not know how to actually earn it.

I expect we will see more of the same where it comes to "drones" which everyone knows are used only by nonces to spy on people in their bathrooms and toilets. 

[flybywire]

I think I can imagine how it would go...

"Is this your flying drone thingy with spy camera attached for specific purpose of annoying all and sundry and looking in on women in their bathrooms/boudoirs sir?" 

[Jumpy07]

This wasn';t you was it ?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1383294&mid=0&i=100&nmt=Camera+Drones+legalities&mid=0

[Biffa]

This wasn';t you was it ?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1383294&mid=0&i=100&nmt=Camera+Drones+legalities&mid=0

Just read that. The OP sounds like a bit of a nobber to me

[teslahed]

Just read the thread - the OP seemed more concerned about the camera and privacy implications and not concerned enough about health and safety.

I don';t think it';s good to fly multirotors FPV over people';s houses and public roads. I wonder if it';s specifically illegal or just inadvisable. I haven';t bothered to check the legality for myself - i wouldn';t do it even if i was allowed.

Everyone who';s been flying FPV long enough will have had some kind of unexplained crash or hardware failure. Fly over residential areas for long enough and it will catch up with you sooner or later.

If i knew someone locally was flying over my house and the local neighbourhood i would definitely ask them not to and explain exactly why. But i wouldn';t threaten to shoot it out the sky - that would be counter productive in terms of the very thing (safety) that i was worried about.

[Biffa]

What makes me laugh is he says he lives on a housing estate yet is worried about crashing his helicopter into it

Does that mean he flies his helicopter to and from his garden, or low enough over the estate to hit the quad?

I still stand by my initial character judgement

[flybywire]

Actually, this thread makes fairly depressing reading (remind me not to enroll myself on the petrol heads gassing station forum  )  They sound like a herd of ';Clarksons'; in stampede mode.

I';m saddened when human beings start to verbally salivate at the prospect of weaponry.  Pure arrogance and intolerance.

[Chippercheese]

Just read the thread - the OP seemed more concerned about the camera and privacy implications and not concerned enough about health and safety.

I don';t think it';s good to fly multirotors FPV over people';s houses and public roads. I wonder if it';s specifically illegal or just inadvisable. I haven';t bothered to check the legality for myself - i wouldn';t do it even if i was allowed.

Everyone who';s been flying FPV long enough will have had some kind of unexplained crash or hardware failure. Fly over residential areas for long enough and it will catch up with you sooner or later.

If i knew someone locally was flying over my house and the local neighbourhood i would definitely ask them not to and explain exactly why. But i wouldn';t threaten to shoot it out the sky - that would be counter productive in terms of the very thing (safety) that i was worried about.

Right?

No matter what I';m flying, be it the 600mm quad, the 2kg disco with cf dagger props or a hubsan X4 I am always acutely aware of everything directly beneath me and prepare for a failure at any given time. The prospect of flying over any building (or even a tree) unnerves me in case it drops from the sky and causes damage, injures someone, or becomes irretrievable.