First build teething problems

[coldguinnessman]

Hi. am building my first quad (mamba F722 stack) and am struggling with a intermittent motor/throttle problem.  when armed the motors wont always start.  they are working fine in betaflight.  the only think i can see is the throttle channel on taranis qx7 is displaying -97 and not -100 (see image).  I do sometimes get a 'throttle not idle' warning on taranis startup.  would that cause the issue and how do i fix it?  can i calibrate or do i need to remove the back and physically adjust the stick?

Last question. Has anyone got any idea as to what might be on AUX12 in betaflight (see image).  i have set up a arm switch on AUX1 but nothing else AFAIK.

Any help appreciated
 

[ched]

Have a look at the outputs menu on the tx. There should be a way of adjusting each channel so that BetaFlight sees the correct start (1000) mid (1500) and end (2000) points. So it's the end points you need to adjust.

There is a safety feature in BF that prevents arming if the throttle is not low. So if your end point is a bit high BF thinks the throttle is up so wont arm!!!

Hope that helps? If not let us know. Also it would be great to see picys of your build.

[Bad Raven]

Firstly, its always better to have the Tx mechanically correct so not giving error messages when its set on defaults (no altered/reduced end points, trims and sub trims centered, etc). The first Taranis was prone to have the "Throttle not Idle" warning as the simple screw mount assembly of the gimbals onto the frame was sometimes off a little. Usually, slackening the screws a little and breathing on the gimbal housing moved the position OK.

Only then should you set up Betaflight.  Assuming default Betaflight settings................

Go to the Receiver screen with the bar graphs for each channel. The model quad there should not be moving at all. It likely will be!

Get the centre point 1500 on the receiver screen correct for all channels used. Do this by sub trim on the Tx, adjusting it live so you can see the number changing. Go BEYOND 1500 and back a times then guesstimate when the 1500 in Betaflight is in the middle of the "dead" range shown.

Then adjust Tx end points to give 1000 to 2000 full stick either way.

Recheck centres are 1500, travel is 1000 to 2000 in Betaflight.

Then go to the Config screen as there are some settings top right to check. Hovering over them will tell you what they mean and what to do.

I won't state yet about the CLI checks for Disarm, do the above first and see!

[coldguinnessman]

Such a steep learning curve. Will remove back of taranis and adjust end point before adjusting channels. Will then check config tab. Pics to follow. Thanks for help

[ched]

Such a steep learning curve. Will remove back of taranis and adjust end point before adjusting channels. Will then check config tab. Pics to follow. Thanks for help

You don't need to take the back off!!!!
Have a look here:

Lee aka Painless360 has some really great OpenTX tutorials as the Taranis is a great radio it can do so much but it takes a little bit to learn the basics.
Hopefully the video above will help explain things, there should be no need to open up the tx.

[Bad Raven]

I do sometimes get a 'throttle not idle' warning on taranis startup. 


Last question. Has anyone got any idea as to what might be on AUX12 in betaflight (see image).  i have set up a arm switch on AUX1 but nothing else AFAIK.

Any help appreciated
 

The Tx message "The throttle not idle" IF the stick was right down when switching on AND the sub trims zero'd and end points were default 0-100 not altered is a mechanical issue, and the gimbal posion is likely off a little, its not set by atering end points at that stage.

If you have a fluctuating bar on Aux 12 its probably Telemetry.

[coldguinnessman]

Thanks for help. i have adjusted channel value end and centre points in the output screen of the tx. not sure what to do about aux12?  I am still getting the throttle idle warning.  I removed the back of taranis but am unable to change any stop points as the end point is the case.


   

[Bad Raven]

Can't say with your model but on the original Taranis it was a case of loosening the screws from Gimbal to case slightly and easing it in the right direction, retightening to hold it there.

Is Aux 12 fluctuating or hard on max?  Check on the Tx monitor and the output channels screen what is present. The X12S for example came with some higher channels above eight selected to duplicate lower ones which just confused newcomers. Not having the smaller Tx I don't know what they did.

If it fluctuates rapidly its Telemetry leaving the Flight Controller. If you want to see this or monitor this on the Transmitter when flying you will have to use the Transmitters Telemetry system to find it and then allocate the info/warnings to speech/sound or screen or both. A lot of what the OSD displays "can" be routed back to the Transmitter so you can monitor for example battery voltage without needing FrSky sensors.

[coldguinnessman]

Thanks.  will remove back of case and try again.  the aux 12 is fixed at max.

[ched]

Just thought of something that could help. If you reset the outputs to the default values, calibrate the gimbals then look at the values in betaflight. Video below should show how to calibrate - they replaced gimbals but it should give you an idea how to calibrate.

https://youtu.be/nzgVmBOl5iE?t=175  start at 2:55 if it doesn't auto start there.

[coldguinnessman]

thanks.  I did calibrate before setting end points.  do you think this is the reason i am getting the throttle idle warning on start up?

[ched]

thanks.  I did calibrate before setting end points.  do you think this is the reason i am getting the throttle idle warning on start up?

I'm no expert in FrSky but I would say that as long as you ran the calibration and followed instructions, then set end points to get betaflight to read 1000min 1500mid and 2000max then it shouldn't matter that the markings on the plastic are not perfect. When you calibrate don't push sticks too hard as that can set the travel a little too far just gently move sticks to the end of travel during cal.
It's all about the electronic signal that BF receives that means it's at zero throttle. In theory you could set zero throttle to be mid point by using OpentTX and setting end point to 50% of scale if you get what I mean? As long as BF is getting a 1000 reading on the throttle channel (you have checked the channel mapping is correct?) then it should be fine.
If you are in BF go on CLI and I think command is status that should show you the warnings that is stopping it arming. I guess the warning you are getting is in the OSD?

[Bad Raven]

No Ched, re-read the first post :  " I do sometimes get a 'throttle not idle' warning on taranis startup."

I read that as a TX warning, nothing whatsoever to do with Betaflight.

Hence why I have been saying what I have.

[ched]

No Ched, re-read the first post :  " I do sometimes get a 'throttle not idle' warning on taranis startup."

I read that as a TX warning, nothing whatsoever to do with Betaflight.

Hence why I have been saying what I have.

You are right mate. Sorry for misleading things. I saw the BF images and jumped to a conclusion.
I wonder if the tx is set to the correct mode i.e. mode 2 if throttle on left?

[coldguinnessman]

Yes, set to mode 2.  still to take my first flight but I don't think it is a big problem as the warning message goes as soon as I pull the throttle down.  the motors will then start if i arm and move the throttle stick around.

[coldguinnessman]

still need to get a gimbal for my gopro and have 10in rotors to fit.  have included image and spreadsheet of parts, weight and cost for anyone interested

[Bad Raven]

Yes, set to mode 2.  still to take my first flight but I don't think it is a big problem as the warning message goes as soon as I pull the throttle down.  the motors will then start if i arm and move the throttle stick around.

Classic mechanical position error on Tx gimbal as I have explained, usually on more recent Tx so I suspect yours adjustable by one (usually allen) screw on the gimbal. Look at the gimbal from the back in action and see what stops it moving at "zero", then tweak just that screw, lifting and lowering stick gently to

BUT, first, look on the Tx monitor screen and see what the minimum throttle number (alongside the bar) is without pulling the stick hard back, you'll be feeding that to the receiver/flight controller, not ideal and possibly issue producing, and well worth correcting now.

And don't do what a mate did, forgot the visual reversal when upside down back open, and fiddled for ages wondering why the throttle setting didn't change! 

If you read elsewhere here you'll see I was a Beta Tester for the first FrSky "Horus", the heavyweight X12S.  Took six months.  On that we got them to add little holes (with plugs) so the adjustments for ratchet,spring loading and stop positions could be made without rear case removal.

[ched]

still need to get a gimbal for my gopro and have 10in rotors to fit.  have included image and spreadsheet of parts, weight and cost for anyone interested

Looks like my old F450 which has the 3 axis gimbal, which is sitting in loft, but with thinner arms. Do get a 3 axis gimbal as they produce so much better results.

[coldguinnessman]

I have removed the back 3 times and can't see any adjustments that will align the throttle lower marks.  I have adjusted the 3 screws circled in red but they seem to be redundant as the throttle is not spring loaded.  The problem? appears to be the plastic barrel stops (circled in green) which can't be adjusted.  Are you sure that the throttle warning is just not a throttle position warning that is designed to warn if the throttle is not in the lower position?

[coldguinnessman]

still not sure what is on Aux 12 but it only registers on max (2011) in BF when taranis is switched on

[coldguinnessman]

Thanks for all the help so far.  Can someone just confirm whether i need to make any changes to the following config settings in BF

[Bad Raven]

Right,

1.  Motor Stop - One of the silliest help statements known to man?  If OFF as pic and you or somone being helpful picks up the armed quad, as soon as its tilted the motors will run under power to try to level the quad and likely cut you/them to shreds. IMO default should be ON!
2.  Motor Idle Throttle % - How much power is generated on the ground - set to not enough to cause issues like bouncing after landing, so experiment.

So, a lot of the above hangs on the fact you have Air Mode permanently turned on (Bottom left table). Therefore stopping the props rotating will be dependent on Arm/Disarm. Get the switch wrong, knock it bending over to recover, picking it up, etc, etc, and you will likely be in a whole load of hurt.

Suggest you look at Joshua Bardwell's video on two stage arming.

Personally for all my freestyle Quads I set Air Mode on a switch, and land with it off.  And I never allow the motors to run other than on the Arm switch, so Motor Stop on, Air Mode off by default. But then I am not as trusting as most!

Since yours is a camera drone you may wish to choose differently, but please make sure your settings make it so when disarmed the thing cannot by too easy a mistake bite you or anyone.

And CAREFULLY test that it does!!

[Bad Raven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv3VJ1jznw8

[coldguinnessman]

Hoping someone here can help.  Have not been able to get drone far off the ground without it becoming unstable and crashing to ground.  I think I may have damaged the esc when attempting to solder for the first time so decided to buy a new esc.  the original was mamba f50 Pro bought as part of a f722 stack.  I thought i had bought the same esc but when it arrived today i noticed it is the f50 esc and not f50 pro.  i believe the main difference is that the f50 has blheli s rather than blheli 32 on the pro esc.  am i going to encounter any problems?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UmWqoiuXEaeJeD6y8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KgZmqK5MAC8d2ADm7

the above links so the first flight and damage to esc

[badger1]

so, starting with your video, it looks like your PIDs are way out which is causing the quad to oscillate wildly.  are you using BetaFlight defaults?  if so, then these are set up - generally - for 3"/5" race-type quads& aren't going to work on a much larger quad like yours.  you might be better off using iNav as it has presets for larger quads which should get you into the ballpark of stable flight.

I think your ESC board is salvageable - you just need re-solder the power cable back on.  your soldering does look like it needs a hotter iron though - your joints look like they're probably "wetted", but they don't look like they've flowed nicely.  remember to put some strain relief on your battery plug - just cable-tie it to a bit of the frame - so that if the battery gets jettisoned it won't be trying to pull the cable off the ESC board again.

don't worry about the difference between blheli & blheli32, either will work fine.  one is just 16 louder.    

[ched]

Agree with badger1. PID's are causing oscillations. Either have a search for pids (on the version of betaflight you are running, different versions can be drastically different) that people with similar props are running.
As for esc, looks like you had a dry joint to start. You might be able to clean up solder pad and resolder -ve cable to it. As badger1 said make sure you cable tie the power cable to the frame so no strain is put on solder joints.

[Bad Raven]

Hi Jason,

Before you do anything else, all those solder joints need attention.

Firstly you need a hot iron with a large enough tip not to lose temp quickly. (and yet small enough to get into the areas needed, which might mean differing irons on the same item, I use four differing sized irons when assembling a quad electronics!)

Secondly, you need to flow solder fully over the pads before attemmpting to attach wires, called "tinning". This should be completely flowed over the pad, and if you look back at your pic, you'll see untinned gold right up to the lump of solder on the wire on many of your joints, and that will rarely give a proper resistance free joint, if a secure joint at all. 

That erratic resistance could be causing all sorts of issues, including what flight issues you have (though I think the PIDs are the cause, too) but most seriously could cause failure in flight if ignored, with consequences that might be painful in many ways.

The process for soldering is:-

1. A Hot Iron big enough that there is minimal time to flow (so minimal time for heat transfer into the components beyond the pads)

2. Tin both halves of the joint fully

3. Pre heat the wire end with the iron before taking the wire to the pad, as its the bigger area and in need of more heating.

4. Negative power wires are usually the most difficult to solder as they are usually the biggest track on the board, so need the most heat. A few years ago there were some boards around where this was so bad it was necc to heat the whole board in an oven first (obviously to below chip damaging temp!) to be able to flow solder on it, let alone attach a wire!

You can get really cheap solder test boards:-

https://uk.banggood.com/Mamba-Soldering-Practice-Board-49x49x1_6mm-for-RC-Drone-FPV-Racing-p-1553984.html?

If possible use old style lead based solder, its still sold.

HTH................

[coldguinnessman]

This is an amazing site. Thanks for all your help. I will redo all of the soldering. I have highlighted my main concern on the old board. Do you think I should continue or use the new F50 board?  Will also look at PIDS again.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uDZSCxB2FCAYL4Ep6

[ched]

This is an amazing site. Thanks for all your help. I will redo all of the soldering. I have highlighted my main concern on the old board. Do you think I should continue or use the new F50 board?  Will also look at PIDS again.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uDZSCxB2FCAYL4Ep6

I would solder the 0v line back on - tin the pad first. Then see if all motors spin (props off test). If they all seem to spin correctly (use BetaFlight) then you should be OK but might be worth resoldering the motor connections as well. Be careful as too much heat can damage things.

Soldering is a bit of a skill, you need the solder hot enough to flow, you need to melt a little solder on the iron then apply iron to joint and apply solder to the joint not the iron. The solder should melt and flow through the wire and pad. If you apply the solder to the iron it will melt as the iron is hot but it won't necessarily flow into the joint.

[coldguinnessman]

thanks. i think i have learnt my lesson with solder.  initially (first time) tried using a old draper soldering iron that had been in my toolbox for years together with some cheap solder.  moved on to a new soldering iron from screwfix but still cheap solder and still couldn't get it to flow.  now have a solder station (tilswall) and can crank up the heat and have some new weller solder and the solder is flowing.  still don't know if its the soldering iron or solder or both that was the problem.

are you saying that if the motors spin the esc is ok?  when looking at some of the first attempt flying videos it appears that one motor isn't spinning as quick at the others. i may be mistaken.  i am thinking that if i am going to redo all joints i should use the new esc?