Action over "Illegal" Video frequencies and power

[Bad Raven]

It's started, OK, its the FAA, but..............................

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-351279A1.pdf

[shawdreamer]

dear me HK why on earth are you selling such things anyway?

25mw should be more than sufficient for any hobbyist, 200mw???  surely thats overkill, I mean who on earth would run their fpv at 200mw?....despite how much better image transmission.... range..... transmission stability etc is better.

that reminds me.... I need to order some black insulation tape to put some "protective" coverings on my vtx's..... erm...... all of them..... best make it a couple of rolls now Im thinking on.

[Cheredanine]

I don’t think this is relevant to UK.
The reason I say this is we have a CE standard.
Products carrying legitimate CE have been tested and are legal.
Anyone selling something without a CE is breaking the law and can be fined.
This is enforced by trading standards - I know UK stores that have had trading standards contact them for many years about VTx.
As far as I am aware the initial conversation went “that product does not have CE certification, stop selling it or we will fine you”
Supplier stopped selling and hasn’t stocked any vtx without confirming CE since, trading standards have come back to him twice in my recollection to confirm he isn’t selling.

In summary it isn’t new and there are clear guide lines and enforcement, although the latter is patchy, it will catch up to sellers that break the rules at some point

[mo_miah]

Is there any legal way to use a 200mW 5.8ghz vtx?
license etc?

[atomiclama]

Is there any legal way to use a 200mW 5.8ghz vtx?
license etc?

Nope. 25mW is the max.

[atomiclama]

The reason I say this is we have a CE standard.
Products carrying legitimate CE have been tested and are legal.

I don't think a single piece of my kit has a CE mark on it. Most bought direct from china. Some from reputable UK suppliers.

Correction my TX and Runcam have.

Although once you have the kit, I think it's down to offcom to enforce the use of the over powered RF. I doubt that's going to happen.

[Cheredanine]

TBS unify has CE

[atomiclama]

TBS unify has CE

All their stuff does doesn't it?

Ah do you mean the power output? What does it go to?

[Cheredanine]

Well as far as vtx, I belie so, some of early models didn’t, think the pro hv race was the first one to have it, all since do.

My point, which I didn’t make, was I& you buy from some chines stor3 their stock is not necessarily gonna have the European branding, tha5 doesn’t mean it hasn’t been certified

[hoverfly]

Higher output don't necessarily give better range or signal quality, that's down to  receiver  sensitivity to a greater degree.  And I wouldn't even consider 200 mw..honestly.. :embarrassed

(I think I've been certified)

[atomiclama]

(I think I've been certified)

Think we knew that  ::)

My point, which I didn’t make, was I& you buy from some chines stor3 their stock is not necessarily gonna have the European branding, tha5 doesn’t mean it hasn’t been certified

But I think to sell the CE mark has to be on the packaging or product. Well I know the stuff we make has to have the CE label on it.

[atomiclama]

Higher output don't necessarily give better range or signal quality

Agreed but it can give better penetration in and around woods/ building / etc.

[mo_miah]

home made quads used for personal use don't need CE approval, if you where to buy parts and build quads for sale then you most likely would need some sort of approval process, would depend on what Directive/Regulation that product falls under
I'm in the CE certification business but only for PPE, not electricals

[Elmattbo]

Is there any legal way to use a 200mW 5.8ghz vtx?
license etc?

Yep, don’t take off. It’s airborne transmitters only!


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[Cheredanine]

home made quads used for personal use don't need CE approval, if you where to buy parts and build quads for sale then you most likely would need some sort of approval process, would depend on what Directive/Regulation that product falls under
I'm in the CE certification business but only for PPE, not electricals

We are talking about vtx, which are parts you buy.
And the sale of them.
If you use a vtx, regardless of provenance, tha5 is transmitting over 25mW in the 5.8G band you are breaking the law

[atomiclama]

home made quads used for personal use don't need CE approval,

That don't make sense 

The parts you buy to make the quad should be CE marked. The fact that you are using it for personal use doesn't change anything.

[Bad Raven]

Firstly, there was no intent in my first post to infer it was directly relevant to UK use.  However, we do tend to find our legislators following like sheep (or lemmings?).

The point is that the FCC are trying to act on items being sold into the USA that do not comply IN ALL SETTINGS with USA law. Compliance at source rather than compliance by user.  A simile is that the volume of a sound issuing device such as a music amplifier can be set to be above the legal maximum, it's the user that has to limit its volume control to comply.  This attempt is potentially changing the whole game.

If that were successful and transferred verbatim to the UK then for example NO VTX containing Race Band would be legal as half the eight are outside the frequency range, and it would not matter a damn if it was CE certified or not.

In fact near EVERY VTX would not be legal as every one I have ever seen has the Chinese "E" band, and NONE of those eight fall inside the range.

Additionally AFAIK CE compliance means it is capable of being operated legally, not exclusively that it is limited to ONLY operate legally in the Euro zone.

Also, the presence of a CE mark does not necc mean it is Euro certified, as there is a VERY similar (strange that!) China Export mark.

[mo_miah]

I'm trying to have a look on europa.eu at any reg that apply to components we use, the low voltage regs start a 50vac and 75 vdc so thats no good
with regards to vtxs being CE certified, not all components fall under the scope of certain EU Directives or Regulations
depending on the end use and what features they have different Dir/Regs will or will not apply

[Cheredanine]

I'm trying to have a look on europa.eu at any reg that apply to components we use, the low voltage regs start a 50vac and 75 vdc so thats no good
with regards to vtxs being CE certified, not all components fall under the scope of certain EU Directives or Regulations
depending on the end use and what features they have different Dir/Regs will or will not apply

Regardless of components, there is a CE for video transmitters. The certification and declaration of conformity comes WITH a unify for the UK market.

Sell a VTX that does not have CE and you are breaking the law, use a VTX that is transmitting on the wrong freqs or power is also illegal.

It isn’t about the CE of the components that make up the vtx. It is the unit as a whole

[Dickw]

The relevant doc could be EN 300 440 as it includes:-
   "5 725 MHz to 5 875 MHz  25 mW e.i.r.p.  Non-specific short range devices".

Dick

[mo_miah]

The relevant doc could be EN 300 440 as it includes:-
   "5 725 MHz to 5 875 MHz  25 mW e.i.r.p.  Non-specific short range devices".

Dick

BS/EN/ISO standards are just something to test against, they are not laws

[Cheredanine]

Ah ok, I must have imagined the trading standards letters I saw.

[mo_miah]

Ah ok, I must have imagined the trading standards letters I saw.

Sorry, is this comment aimed at me?
I was saying BS/EN/ISO standards are not laws
Trading standards check products against laws/EU Directives and Regulation
I'm sure if they gave notice then it was legit
If there are products being sold in UK stores that are not CE certified its either because customs let in a product they shouldn't have or that particular product doesn't fall under the scope of the particular EU Directive/regulation because of a certain feature it may or may not have
Not saying you are wrong

[ched]

Sell a VTX that does not have CE and you are breaking the law, use a VTX that is transmitting on the wrong freqs or power is also illegal.

Interesting. It used to be illegal to use an unlicenced transmitter but not to buy, sell, or own one. I remember back in the 80's you used to be able to but 10watt FM transmitters to make your own radio station  ::) Then there was the AM transmitters to use as an 'uplink' to a remote FM transmitter, So the DTi could only seize the FM transmitter and not catch who ever was DJing at the time  ::)

It was perfectly legal to own or sell them just illegal to use them.

I guess that was the days before EU  laws  ::) ::) ::)

Of course I know nothing about pirate radio transmissions at all, it was a mate who told me

[DarkButterfly]

Interesting. It used to be illegal to use an unlicenced transmitter but not to buy, sell, or own one. I remember back in the 80's you used to be able to but 10watt FM transmitters to make your own radio station  ::) Then there was the AM transmitters to use as an 'uplink' to a remote FM transmitter, So the DTi could only seize the FM transmitter and not catch who ever was DJing at the time  ::)

It was perfectly legal to own or sell them just illegal to use them.

I guess that was the days before EU  laws  ::) ::) ::)

Of course I know nothing about pirate radio transmissions at all, it was a mate who told me

They also used microwave uplinks to do the same thing to remote FM transmitters, had to be LOS to work properly.

[ched]

They also used microwave uplinks to do the same thing to remote FM transmitters, had to be LOS to work properly.

Microwave uplinks are a bit above my mates skills and I am not sure the cost would have been reasonable back in the 80's 

[shawdreamer]

I wonder how all this figures into multi power settings setups like all of mine?

most all of mine can be set between 0.5 (for ground channel tuning) all the way upto 200mw (I think one does higher iirc)

naturally I NEVER set my MW higher than 25mw but having the option exist and in place could be misconstrued as likely to do a naughty.... which of course Id never do..... ever...... no really honest Im a good boy really....

........... why are you all scowling at me?

[Elmattbo]

Just because legislation in the US has changed doesn’t mean anything will change in the UK. The situation is identical now to how it’s always been for us.

There are lots of regulations in the US that are fundamentally different, both in aviation and otherwise, so to say we blindly follow whatever they do is not correct. The similar timing for review and introduction of new laws governing use of UAS is because of the emergence of the technology, not because ‘they’re doing it, so should we’.

In fact, in aviation the design standard for procedures is fundamentally different in the USA (TERPS vs PANS-OPS).


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[hoverfly]

Agreed but it can give better penetration in and around woods/ building / etc.

Let's be clear now we are talking video T/X...

[shawdreamer]

he is...... but what he's watching through them id far worse than what that sounded like anyway