A drone registration system is to be launched

[Samslimer]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/631638/unlocking-the-uks-high-tech-economy-consultation-on-the-safe-use-of-drones-in-the-uk-government-response.pdf

[aburn09]

It';s going to interesting to see how they will enforce this as the police can barely keep up with the day to day running of their proper work or will it be left to ';special constables'; or park wardens to enforce ?........Will they have to walk around with scales to weigh your drone ?
What also do they class a drone for example I fly large 500 size model helicopters it';s unmanned line of sight flying and certainly weighs more than 250g ? what about model plane flyers ? Are they exempt ? Is it all about fpv that';s the issue? If I fly my drones line of sight where do I stand ? If I put a fpv camera in my helicopter is that a drone ?  Like I said it';s going to be interesting to see how they intend to police this ?...... it';s going to be muddy waters as to what you can fly and what you need this licience for ?
Any responsible flyer like myself is already insured to fly, mine is through ';bmfa'; who I';ve been with for nearly 20 years since I first started flying models just incase something does go wrong........so what';s the real issue here..........Its the foolish people with large drones  (mine are 220 racers) who send them up in the air out of the line of site miles away who the authorities should be targeting And that I totally agree with !!
Leave us responsible park flyers alone as we don';t cause any problems and I for one will not be registering my ';drones'; until pc plod comes knocking at my door !!
Ask yourself this since dog registering became law how many dogs are walking around our streets unregistered ? Probably thousands and how often do you hear of anyone being prosecuted for not having their pet registered ?

[apollo7]

This has got me thinking about all this rules and enforcement, i am coming round to the way of thinking "F***K IT" and cutting back on multirotors, i was about to order a Tarot 650 sport frame kit, but putting that on hold and think its time to flog the Hex, been toying with getting a GPS selfie drone for a while and this might be the way forward for a lot of my needs, small quiet and discreet

[Jimmeh]

"The Government will work with model aircraft flying clubs to examine ways in
which it may be possible to exempt members of model aircraft flying clubs with
adequate safety cultures and practices from certain elements of registration and
other educational requirements, or where their club will be permitted to undertake
regulatory requirements on their behalf. Flyers of model aircraft who are not
members of a club, or are members of a club not deemed to have adequate
standards will, however, not be excluded from registration or other requirements."

Interesting...

[Two-Six]

Yes that is interesting.  It is an obvious attempt to stop "just anybody" from setting up a "club" and exempting themselves.

I wonder who will be the "Club Inspector General" and what sort of things clubs will have to demonstrate they have. 

Probably a major requirement will be a huge field with nothing for miles marked on airmaps.  So that will preclude flying from anywhere but a few designated areas in very large and wealthy clubs. 

(....Like the new BMFA HQ?........ )

Anything else will be an offence punishable by a large fine and confiscation of your equipment.

Its gonna be great.

[DarkButterfly]

Given this some thought.

I don';t know where they get the 250g limit from, if it was me making the regs, I would do it like this.

Have the usual drone code and two weight classes.

Hobby class anything up to 1Kg  and no registration required but insurance is mandatory.

Heavy class, anything over 1Kg registration and insurance required.

[Reman]

Given this some thought.

I don';t know where they get the 250g limit from, if it was me making the regs, I would do it like this.

Have the usual drone code and two weight classes.

Hobby class anything up to 1Kg  and no registration required but insurance is mandatory.

Heavy class, anything over 1Kg registration and insurance required.

Yeah, But you';re looking at it from a logical and informed viewpoint, But the people tasked with thinking up these rules are neither.

This all makes me think about the way car modification laws slowly changed.

Back in the day, If you wanted to put wide arches and a rover V8 in a capri you just did it, Then you sent the V5 back to DVLA with the change in engine number and capasity boxes filled in. When that came back you told your insurance company and hit the road. Now you need to wade through so much burocratic bullsh*t that most mechanics wouldn';t want to start the swap in case they ended up with an old car that would need to go through a modern "Individual Vehicle Approval" test (Which most 80';s or early 90';s cars wouldn';t pass without serious changes pretty much everywhere).

All these rules were brought in under the heading of public safety. They were to stop the more inept of the boy racers from doing sh*t like making brake calliper adapter plates out of 2mm alloy, Or using blocks of fence post as engine mounts, Or cutting big lumps of structural metal out of their car to make room for their sound system, But these rules hit everyone. This all started before the widespread use of the internet, So most of us didn';t know anything was changing until some of us started to fall foul of the new rules.

Bit by bit they added layers of bureaucracy until it wasn';t really feasible for your average law abiding citizen to mess about with their car anymore.......... But the inept few still badly hack their cars about in the name of owning a "Modified ride". If they DID know that they should have submitted their bodykitted and engine swapped car for an IVA test a lot of them just ignore it and don';t even tell the DVLA about the changes (Because it would put their insurance quote up !!!!).

The set of rules these bureaucrats thought up pretty much killed the English car modifying industry, And the bodgers it was ment to catch carried on regardless.

If these new drone laws come in, All us law abiding(Ish *) citizens will be stuck jumping through ever decreasingly sized hoops until the activity';s only really worth getting involved in for people who are intending to be getting paid to fly multirotors........ All the while the inept who "Bought one of those FPV quad things cheap off a mate" is going out to fly along and look through bedroom windows in his street "for the fun of it", Or see how high he can fly it above his garden, Despite him living in a heavily built up area right under the final approach at Heathrow.

Like the inept car modifiers who';d still happily use blu tack to hold down their drivers seat today, 99% of the people these "Drone laws" are aimed at won';t even know they exist.


(* Are we all using 25mw VTX';s...... Anyone?)

[Elmattbo]

+25mw vtx are offcom';s concern, not the CAA!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ched]

+25mw vtx are offcom';s concern, not the CAA!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same as privacy isn';t CAA either. They seem to want to stretch their powers!!!

[betty]

Users will have to pass a saftey-awareness test in bid to prevent their increasing misuse. This';s great.

[hoverfly]

Users will have to pass a saftey-awareness test in bid to prevent their increasing misuse. This';s great.

Meaningless..drivel

[nate80]

Yeah, But you';re looking at it from a logical and informed viewpoint, But the people tasked with thinking up these rules are neither.

This all makes me think about the way car modification laws slowly changed.

Back in the day, If you wanted to put wide arches and a rover V8 in a capri you just did it, Then you sent the V5 back to DVLA with the change in engine number and capasity boxes filled in. When that came back you told your insurance company and hit the road. Now you need to wade through so much burocratic bullsh*t that most mechanics wouldn';t want to start the swap in case they ended up with an old car that would need to go through a modern "Individual Vehicle Approval" test (Which most 80';s or early 90';s cars wouldn';t pass without serious changes pretty much everywhere).

All these rules were brought in under the heading of public safety. They were to stop the more inept of the boy racers from doing sh*t like making brake calliper adapter plates out of 2mm alloy, Or using blocks of fence post as engine mounts, Or cutting big lumps of structural metal out of their car to make room for their sound system, But these rules hit everyone. This all started before the widespread use of the internet, So most of us didn';t know anything was changing until some of us started to fall foul of the new rules.

Bit by bit they added layers of bureaucracy until it wasn';t really feasible for your average law abiding citizen to mess about with their car anymore.......... But the inept few still badly hack their cars about in the name of owning a "Modified ride". If they DID know that they should have submitted their bodykitted and engine swapped car for an IVA test a lot of them just ignore it and don';t even tell the DVLA about the changes (Because it would put their insurance quote up !!!!).

The set of rules these bureaucrats thought up pretty much killed the English car modifying industry, And the bodgers it was ment to catch carried on regardless.

If these new drone laws come in, All us law abiding(Ish *) citizens will be stuck jumping through ever decreasingly sized hoops until the activity';s only really worth getting involved in for people who are intending to be getting paid to fly multirotors........ All the while the inept who "Bought one of those FPV quad things cheap off a mate" is going out to fly along and look through bedroom windows in his street "for the fun of it", Or see how high he can fly it above his garden, Despite him living in a heavily built up area right under the final approach at Heathrow.

Like the inept car modifiers who';d still happily use blu tack to hold down their drivers seat today, 99% of the people these "Drone laws" are aimed at won';t even know they exist.


(* Are we all using 25mw VTX';s...... Anyone?)

The majority of vehicle modifications that the fast and furious generation carry out don';t require any official approval.  I was heavily into the car modifying scene when it exploded again back in the late 90';s.  I modded a whole load of vehicles (my own and friends) including an Efini RX-7 Re Amemiya show car, and I continue to perform quality upgrades today.  Light weight and stronger wheels, 6/8 pot callipers, braided brake lines and uprated discs and pads, exhaust systems (straight through/Y-pipe and back/rear cans only), dump valves, upgraded turbo';s, uprated intercoolers, lightened flywheels, upgraded gearboxes, ported and upgraded engines (new cams, pistons, heads, injectors etc.), new head/tail/indicator lights, new body kits, huge sound system installs etc.

As long as the upgrades use CE approved parts where necessary, conform to the legal requirements (such as legal-window-tint values, only using non-tinted main and brake light units, don';t use under-car neon lighting on the road or impersonate an emergency vehicle in any way) and are sensibly fitted the vehicle will have no modified-car-linked reason to fail its MOT and it will remain road legal.  The owners insurance company will need to be told about every modification, but that';s it.

You generally only need to get an IVA test completed and inform the DVLA if you';re importing a vehicle, modifying a commercial goods vehicle, building a trailer or modifying a car to provide a special-requirement such as adding a wheel chair lift. When changing an engine (for the same or different capacity) you just need to inform the DVLA and provide engine and chassis numbers. They don';t like engine swaps anymore (for power increase reasons at least) but they';ll still provide a new V5C - though they sometimes make it a frustrating experience with loads of questions.

The modifying scene in the UK died out for a few reasons really. It';d begun to show signs of having run its course as a fad interest mostly for young people even before other influences slowed it';s popularity further. It was very/extremely expensive to maintain properly. The police began cracking down on cars fitted with cheap mods (smoked lights, pitch black tinted windows) and generally victimised modified car drivers pulling them over to check their tyre wear etc. And then youth culture changed completely. Loud cars (mechanically and in terms of their sound systems) were linked to the late night, party-atmosphere, club culture of the day, which died a death in the mid noughties. Councils refused club licenses and tried to ';clean up'; the streets at night due to a rise in violence and drunken behaviour.

Then the financial ';crash'; happened and everyone began staying in at weekends or going round to friends houses to party. Modified cars weren';t needed and suddenly had no place. They were prohibitively expensive to build, there were far fewer places to go with less people to show them off to, and this lead to the public that had always hated modified cars feeling braver to speak out against lewd and unsociable behaviour displayed by many modified car drivers (they said).

Nothing bad (at the time) could be said about push bikes. Bicycles were cheaper, and greener, so the government used the shift in culture, coupled with the financial climate, to incentivise bike riding (reduced cost cycle purchase schemes through work places and a massively improved road cycle network). It all marked the death of the modified car scene in the UK.

I know what you mean about inept car modifiers though! I';ve seen so many (normal young) numpties doing really stupid and potentially dangerous things to their cars in the effort to stand out and look ';cool';. The public generally have to wait for them to be caught by the MOT station or the Police who pull them over for some reason. Saying that modifying vehicles properly can be very positive thing and a great way to learn car engineering and mechanics. It';s similar to multi-rotor building teaching some electronics etc. As long as it';s done properly I';m definitely all for it.

I';m sure the proposed registration process in the UK won';t kill the multi-rotor hobby industry, but I am concerned it';ll make a dent in the popularity that';s needed to grow the technology in the United Kingdom. Hopefully the bureaucrats will consider this before making any final decisions!

[Bad Raven]

For those still unsure how far the restrictions may go, from day one nearly EASA were clearly stating that they';d looked at types of model but could find no way to designate that would not allow drone (quad. etc) loopholes.

Thus drone in the context of all current documentation means ALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT.

While its a serious matter I had to have a laugh at a "mature" modeller who was stating loud and long that Free Flight would be exempt.

I asked him to explain how when all the likely regs that have appeared worldwide and are still proposed are stated as needed to control very closely WHERE UAVs can fly, yet he seemed to think they';d ignore the fact that free flight means you release the thing to go wherever it liked with no possibility of control after release?

It went very quiet........................

[hoverfly]

At the point of getting boring repeating myself, the stunning lack of action by the B.M.F.A. is just this point. The "I';m alright Jack"  attitude for a long standing organisation that is supposed to promote, support , etc.   is lamentable.  There are non so blind as those who cannot see or refuse to see.
If the regs get refined and only refer to multi rotor  kit will this include helis ,or  bi-rotors as i prefer to call them. Will i have to sell my Rex bedroom spy ship.?

[JeremyE]

So are the cops/wardens/(insert whatever you desire here) going to be running round with scales to make sure that the drones are more than 250g? I just see this whole thing costing the government a whack of money that could be way better used elsewhere!

[Reman]

I';d be inclined to think they';d just confiscate any kit you had with you and worry about weighing it back at the station.

[Slobberdog57]

I';d be inclined to think they';d just confiscate any kit you had with you and worry about weighing it back at the station.

guilty till proven innocent, I doubt that will get many people p****d off tbh

[Reman]

guilty till proven innocent, I doubt that will get many people p****d off tbh

That';s unfortunately how it seems to be these days.
It';s like when your car';s snapped by a speed camera, it';s down to you to prove that someone else was driving or you (the owner) will be the one who gets the points.

[Slobberdog57]

That';s unfortunately how it seems to be these days.
It';s like when your car';s snapped by a speed camera, it';s down to you to prove that someone else was driving or you (the owner) will be the one who gets the points.

A bit different but I get your point,

Anyway policing by police is only gonna happen when an issue with someone happens as they have precious little time for doing their job now so going out looking for people flying drones is never gonna be a priority, and to have people wandering around just looking for drones is never gonna be a paid job, not when the government cant afford to put extra money is the police or NHS,

about time the BMFA started standing up for its membership and helping with this fuss, instead of just sitting around looking after its plankers';

[Cheredanine]

It wouldn';t be difficult to include a digital scale in you flight kit to prove he weight of you quad (although it wouldn';t be difficult to mod said scale to the point it says the combined weight of you, your mates and your quad is under 250g)

[The.Quadfather]

Article on BBC website UK government';s drone collision report criticised

"Some of the most alarming findings in DfT';s summary are based on an object that resembles a javelin more than a drone," Mr Brinkwerth said.

interesting read, whether this comes to anything is another thing

Dept for Transports response:

The DfT said it could not comment for security reasons.

[JeremyE]

The DFT';s laziness just shining through...

[VaNDAL_UK]

This is all BS and can be ignored.

Fly when and where you want. Just don';t be a moron!

Stick that in a PDF.

[iRobot]

This is all BS and can be ignored.

Fly when and where you want. Just don';t be a moron!

Stick that in a PDF.

Spot on laws and registrations and regulations, biggest load of crap I';ve heard in a long time lol how could any of this ever be policed.
I';m constantly reading how people are ';thinking of selling up';, worried about the regs and so on..... they spend hours reading through long winded documents of proposals and rules and drivel,,,, how boring 
Now I';m a DJI flyer, it';s obviously people like me who are causing all these drone related incidents, as reported by the BBC.

P. S. Whilst on a laughable rant..... Bmfa are crap tossers who do nowt for model flying 

[Bad Raven]

With regard the "how will this ever be policed", the answer is poorly, but not ignored, and you may be the unlucky one.

Recently several people have been stopped and informed they face prosecution for drone related offences, examples are available by search engine if you do not believe. One was for "taking off less than the legal distance from a person not under the pilots control" (claimed by the officers involved as 18 feet away). And that was placed on the existing regulations in force now.

The issue is not so much what the law is, but if common sense is applied to it when being policed.

To state that criminals will not register (if/when that becomes required) is blindingly obvious, but the Police need clear law TO enforce sensible control over abuse. Be a miracle if they get it based on the proposals so far!

Remember a "tailgating" driving law being passed over and above all the "due care" and "dangerous driving" law already in place?  In place July 2013?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-penalties-to-tackle-tailgating-and-middle-lane-hogging

Seen any improvement?  Heard of any specific action resulting?

Thought not................................

[hoverfly]

Early this year it was announced that there was to be a crack down on middle lane  hogging, not sure which roads were targeted but they missed the M40,  A14, and most of the roads around Birmingham.  There are also lots of people who indicate right on roundabouts then exit left, others of this ilk are indicator exempt.

[Bad Raven]

Early this year it was announced that there was to be a crack down on middle lane  hogging, not sure which roads were targeted but they missed the M40,  A14, and most of the roads around Birmingham.  There are also lots of people who indicate right on roundabouts then exit left, others of this ilk are indicator exempt.

They also missed the M25, M20, M23, A23, A21, A24, A27, A22, hell I have even seen several POLICE vehicles tailgating!!

That is the point, policing if at all will be so random as to be ineffective in taking out the tossers supposedly causing the issue in the first place. Mobile Phone while driving law anyone? Illegal number plates?

[Bajadre]

the more and more I hear about all this reg stuff makes me feel it isn';t nothing to do with the hobbyists but to get companies like amazon setup for air flight time etc

[trebor]

If there is no manpower to deal with the middle lane, outside lane hogging I';ll volunteer provided I can ram them back into the inside lane !
Can you see what';s going to happen with the Amazon delivery drone service if it';s anything like their contracted out delivery vans. They were on the news a while back and half of the vans should have been banned from the roads. Amazon force the cost down so much people cut corners, we will have drones falling from the sky';s due to poor servicing, faulty parts.

[Bad Raven]

the more and more I hear about all this reg stuff makes me feel it isn';t nothing to do with the hobbyists but to get companies like amazon setup for air flight time etc

Which it is, it';s all about being able to sell the currently "unused" airspace to the highest bidder and taking a huge back-hander in the process.