need help and advice tricopters and quads

[apollo7]

Okay, so i have the Titus 600 and also a trifecta used frame is heading my way, but looking at things logically i really struggle to fly multi`s without GPS, its the altitude hold that makes the difference for me, i find without it i end up with multi either falling to the ground or heading onto space like an rocket, it should just be a case of easy on the throttle, but lets just say i struggle and leave it at that  so i could go with a GPS FC like pix or apm, but i feel this may spoil the appeal of the tricopters flight, making it fly more like a phantom and less like an RC explorer, so i am between a rock and a hard patch and close to calling it a day with tricopters, grateful for any advice from you guys

[guest325]

A Pixhawk or APM won';t really spoil the Tricopter experience, it will dumb it down a bit but won';t really make it fly like a quad. I had the same problem and still fly mainly in stability mode (an age/reaction thing), but give choice I pick my tricopter up rather than a quad most times. Given choice - because I am always managing to break something - fortunately Simplecopter tri';s are cheap and easy to fix!!!

[apollo7]

Darrell, an encouraging post, maybe i will carry on with the gps for the Titus, i do feel it wont be long before this one gets badly broken

[GdLookinMingeR]

I used apm mini on my tri and flying with drift mode was good fun and did not distract from the flight characteristics as i was used to flying with a kk2.

I also flew it using a cc3d in ratitude that was a little more exciting although it does not have altitude hold it maintains altitude with motor compensation through turns etc. when using the open or libepilot software.

Then i tried a naze32 full v1 with baro that was a long time ago and altitude hold was awful.

To be honest with practice you soon get the feel for the sticks- it just takes time enjoy and dont rush.
Have fun and fly safe
Jay

[guest325]

Darrell, an encouraging post, maybe i will carry on with the gps for the Titus, i do feel it wont be long before this one gets badly broken

In that case don';t fly it until you';ve got it sorted, it';s too nice to break!
Get yourself either the CPO plans and make a woodie or get a Simplecopter T, the latest ';Durabeam'; version is the mutts nuts, it looks like it will take serious abuse! Matt is pretty good when you want something off him, he found the cheapest way for me to get my last purchase off him and I can';t fault the quality and his help and advice.

[apollo7]

TBH,
I would really like an RC exporer or make a woodie tricopter, might have a poke around the DIY store for wood to make the arms, i can get the ply from work as thats what we sell from 0.5mm to 50mm thickness

[guest325]

If you have access to different types of ply the best arms I ever made were using a laminated layup of birch faced ply ( layup was rotated 90 deg each layer) to give 12mm thick (4×3mm) and I then sliced 12mm strips,
They were much stronger than poplar or light hardwood. I have tried CF and aluminium but they transmit vibration a lot more.

[apollo7]

Laying up Birch ply would be VERY strong but what a pain bonding it up and then cutting the strips, not impossible though as i could get it cut into strips at one of the places i deliver to.....Italian popular is lovely and light but just not strong enough

[guest325]

The other way I';ve made arms is with round hardwood dowel and filed the ends square, bit tedious to do by hand but it makes a strong arm - not as good as the ply though.

[apollo7]

I have  credit with one of the Chinese outfits so i might order some motors and look at building a simple woodie tricopter about 9 inch arms with 7 inch props, just need an idea of what motor size and kv, seen some 2204 1500kv that would just about work with the trifecta at some stage with 8" props, i could take the kk2 from the titus as it will be getting a pix at some stage

[guest325]

Keep it light and use about a 1500mah 3S with that setup and it should work, I';ve not built one with that small motors on a 7" prop, I usually stick to Sunnysky 2212 1400kv motors on 30A esc';s on an 8" prop but that';s with a 10 or 12"arm.
I have also tried Suppo 2212 2200kv motors on a 6" prop, it was wild!!!

[apollo7]

Think i will stick with the tricopter project, might look at building some thing rather nice early next year maybe a rc explorer but maybe a smallish one, will order the bits for the trifecta and see if i can keep it in one piece for a fair while

[guest325]

Just take it easy and don';t try to run before you can walk, a tricopter is easier to fly than a quad once you get used to it.
Go straight back to basics, even follow the Painless 360 guide on how to learn to fly, it';s better do that than get down if you are crashing a lot. I started out with an easy to fly 450 with gps and all the bells and whistles - I had just the same problems when I dropped the gps etc it took me a long while and a lot of broken models to make me realise that I needed to learn to fly again from scratch - no regrets, I am enjoying myself now much more than I thought possible.

[apollo7]

Yep, will take my time and use the trifecta as a crash test dummy, just looked at the armatton cf 355 frame, looks super good but pricey, never say never

[guest325]

Yep, will take my time and use the trifecta as a crash test dummy, just looked at the armatton cf 355 frame, looks super good but pricey, never say never

That frame is one of the best, everything about it is right but for me it';s a bit small, if they made a 400-450 size I would get one.

[apollo7]

Just watched a really boring youtube on building the Armatton 355, it looks perfect but i would want the frame and not the full kit so would need to decide what motors, i have emailed Makeitbuildit to see if they still have the frame in stock

[guest325]

I would use the same motors / esc';s that are being used on 250 quad builds - maybe a bit quick but it would easily do the job and have power to spare even on 3S.

[apollo7]

I would use the same motors / esc';s that are being used on 250 quad builds - maybe a bit quick but it would easily do the job and have power to spare even on 3S.

How about sunnysky 2206 2100kv, with 20amp blheli dys esc

[kilby]

One of the advantages of an Armattan is that the frame will fit together, sadly it';s still not unusual for pieces not to match up properly.

It sounds silly but it';s incredibly frustrating when you start building and things don';t quite match up.

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[guest325]

How about sunnysky 2206 2100kv, with 20amp blheli dys esc

Should be ok on 3S but if you intend to go 4S you might need 30A.

[apollo7]

One of the advantages of an Armattan is that the frame will fit together, sadly it';s still not unusual for pieces not to match up properly.

It sounds silly but it';s incredibly frustrating when you start building and things don';t quite match up.

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Thats interesting, might put a dampener on going with Armatton, if paying for top notch want it to go together just perfect, will keep doing my homework, shame Fortis ar USA, or might look at their frames

[kilby]

Thats interesting, might put a dampener on going with Armatton, if paying for top notch want it to go together just perfect, will keep doing my homework, shame Fortis ar USA, or might look at their frames

I';m saying that the Armattan will go together properly which is a damn good reason for considering them (I have 3 Armattan quads at the moment)

They';re not cheap, but when buying direct (though I think Phil has a discount Tri available) you get something really well made.

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[apollo7]

Ah, think i misread your other post

[kilby]

No problem, and yes I do have thoughts of a Tri myself

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[apollo7]

Keep it light and use about a 1500mah 3S with that setup and it should work, I';ve not built one with that small motors on a 7" prop, I usually stick to Sunnysky 2212 1400kv motors on 30A esc';s on an 8" prop but that';s with a 10 or 12"arm.
I have also tried Suppo 2212 2200kv motors on a 6" prop, it was wild!!!

I ordered the sunnysky 2206 2100kv in the end, these are for the crash test dummy (Trifecta) along with little bee 20amp esc, will stick to 3s

[apollo7]

Okay, so i have just pulled the trigger on the armatton 355 frame, this will be a future build once i have got better at flying tricopters

[kilby]

Well you won';t have to worry about breaking it anyway

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[apollo7]

Well you won';t have to worry about breaking it anyway

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Thats what i am thinking, wont be in a rush to build it as gonna crash and smash the trifecta for a bit, what motors would you fit to the armatton?

[kilby]

Well my 258 v-tail had 2822s 1800kV motors and it had it swung an 8 inch prop very nicely, so I guess that may be a starting point.

It will depend on what props and batteries you decide run with.

I think they where slightly modified RCX (or DYS) motors.

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[guest325]

On that frame for what you want the Trifeca setup would most likely work ok, it may not be as fast as their suggested setup but should be fine to start with, you could then upgrade if you need to.