Hello & suggestions of progression from cheerson cx-10

[SpeedyGonzales]

Hello to everyone,

Would like your advice on what steps I should follow to progress from the cheerson cx-10 to freestyle please.

I started off with a phantom 3 a couple of weeks back, lovely for video footage, fantastically stable and equally boring to pilot after a few flights.

Thankfully from youtube searching on the phantom I watched some freestyle quad videos and I am hooked .

To master the basics I have purchased a cheerson cx-10 tx and have been flying that around the past few days. I am wondering what quad to progress to next to master more techniques.

Should I move straight to a race drone and fly it in stability mode while learning more advanced techniques on the transmitter (currently do not have a transmitter) connected to computer simulation. Or to a Tiny Whoop type of quad and to the race drone later on.

I have previously been into r/c cars, boats and a little foray into planes. I am an electronic engineer so should be handy with building.

[Cheredanine]

Hi,
So normal progression is something like an indoor micro quad to a racer. The point of the first quad is muscle memory for direction on sticks

If you got that then yes, move to racer.

Try and avoid pre built, build your own, the reasons for this are:
1. Pre built you are paying a lot of your cash for someone to build it, it is probably mad done and attention to detail won';t be what you would give it
2. When you crash it, you know how it works and fits together, you can mend it
3. Pre built tend to use cheap components, when you build yourself you can select the best you can afford

there are a lot of builds in the 250 build section of the forum, suggest you take a drive through and see what you like but bear in mind there are different quads for different reasons

Do you have a radio?
Are you planning to fly fpv or los?

To give you an idea, I have a lot of fast racers with underslung batteries and obscene power levels.

This is my favourite freestyle quad:

[SpeedyGonzales]

Thankyou for your advice

controller : I do not currently own one. Is there any benefit for me currently to purchase one of the higher end controllers (do they have more stability features for beginners?) or would it be fine to go for something cheap and cheerful to get started with and then look into choosing from the plethora of high end controllers once I understand what the benefits of them are.

LOS FPV : I would like to fly FPV

[Cheredanine]

Hi, so sinner or later you find you have bought a lot of quads or crashed them a lot, but you never crash the radio or the goggles
So as a general rule, if you can do it, I would buy a radio that does everything you need and is of decent quality

Having done cars I assume you are familiar with spektrum and futaba brands, for drones the most common (like 90%+) of the pilots I fly with use an frsky taranis, traditionally this is an X9D+ however within the last six months frsky has brought out the qx7 which has the same functionality pretty much at a cheaper price point, so I would suggest investing in one of those.

Goggles in an interesting one. Again most pilots use fatshark dominators, but they are very pricey, a smaller following go with skyzone, which offer similar functionality and form factor at a cheaper price point (about 200quid), there are a range of cheaper goggles at about 50 quid which are basically 5 inch screens in a box. They work, I was sent some to test, people like them, I have to say, I much prefer the fatshark/skyzone style, much more immersive and comfortable, but if budget is a factor here...

Any particular quad you like the look of?

[SpeedyGonzales]

Looks like we have transmitter sorted :)
For the goggles, I hope I can find a shop (I live in north London) to try different ones out, if not shall else shall plumb for the skyzones, and then invest in the skysharks at a later date (if I become good at piloting then I shall treat myself).

Quad wise, there seems to be such a vast array out there.
I thought that since I am most likely to beat the thing to death, I should at least give it a running chance by asking you which would be the toughest, has easily replaceable arms and with good protection for the electronics (and I';m sure many other things which I have not yet forseen).

Also which size of body and prop would you recommend, would I be correct to assume that a larger quad would be more stable and less agile which would work to my benefit when starting out?

[Cheredanine]

Size is not a good indication of "crashability" mainly due to the increase in momentum due to higher mass and the effect of angular momentum on force with longer arms

Frames I would suggest would be around 200-220 with a top mounted lipo.

That one I pictured is a dronewolf pup, It is 18 months old and I have crashed the ever living kack out of it, destroyed a,m the components multiple times except the carbon

I would suggest one of two frames in particular:
Lumenier qav210 charpu : there are cheap Chinese clones from realacc and lisam which are slightly less durable but much cheaper, you take your pick, but this is a good solid frame, excellent for acro (small, light and agile) but with plenty of room for a first build

The other option would be an Armattan chameleon. A short-x220 frame (like my dronewolf) with much hype at the moment, heavier than the QAV with less room for the build so you need to pick components carefully, also more expensive but comes with a lifetime warranty which is a plus.

[SpeedyGonzales]

Shall look into the models you suggested.

In terms of the electronic crutches, provided by the flight controller (I';m guessing), which would you suggest that has the best features for starting out with a lot of stability, but then allow one to gradually remove an aid at a time to progress to fully manual

[Cheredanine]

generally there are three modes used on this sort of quad -
Angle mode - stabilised (using accelerometer) - won';t let you flip or roll or fly fast

Horizon mode - kind of a hybrid, like angle but will let you flip and roll at full stick - commonly used by los fliers

Acro/rate mode - what most people use, no self levelling, any fpv video where the pilot is even remotely competent uses this

There is a school of thought that says - don';t bother starting on angle or horizon as it just teaches you bad habits and you waste time.  My learning to fly predates this so I can';t comment but it does make a lot of sense

Any flight controller will do all three modes.
What you really need to decide is what software to run.
The broad churches are:

Kiss - proprietary software only runs on their hardware, quite popular, although not the biggest market share

Cleanflight/betaflight - (I use betaflight) - the most common, loads of hardware runs this, open source software

Openpilot/dronin - limited hardware, these are technically different pieces of software but I group them as openpilot stop development for their racing boards about 2 years ago, the devs involved largely got together and created dronnin.

I would suggest betaflight which is kind of a beta test fork for cleanflight. (Could always start with cleanflight, pretty much all hardware runs one will run the other). F1 flight controllers like naze32 just can';t really handle it any more, f3 are the minimum really, f4 are common, f7 are now available.

You want to get one with an spi gyro (not mpu6500 or 9250), and an sd card as a minimum

Depending on which frame you use you may need a pdb, some flight controllers have these built in, which can be a double edged sword.

You need a way of monitoring the lipo voltage, some fc have built in osd to display this on the fpv feed but personnaly I prefer to use a cam hitch does this (runcam swift or Foxeer arrow/monster

[SpeedyGonzales]

Thankyou for your replies so far, they have very much helped me. Sorry I have not replied, it is because I have been trying to look more into your advice and am stuck on what to ask next.
Since your last message, I have bought a basic hubsan x4 to get the hang of something faster than the cheerson. Also I bought an FPV simulator, I chose velocidrone as it works on mac and many had given positive reviews on it. I';m currently just using my playstation controller to try and get the hang on things and realising that I need to hasten the purchase of the transmitter to get the feel of using a proper transmitter.

I';m trying to get my head around the benefits of plumbing for the x9d or x7 with Opentx over something like a turnigy evolutiion, FlySky FS-i6S which have touch screen controls, are cheaper and especially with the turnigy evolution much more portable.
I initially thought it was due to telemetry options, the ability to set alarm for low battery voltage or size of reciever in the quad, but it seems the turnigy and flysky also have telemetry and the low battery alarm and the receivers are said to be of decent size. Also adjustments to the behaviour of the quad it appears that most of the changes are to be made on the flight controller than in the transmitter.

The OpenTx system looks to be completely customisable but I do not understand what extra features it would open up as can only think of requiring chaneels to do arming, changing stability modes, maybe turning led';s on/off.
I have read some saying that other systems are very restrictive compared to openTx, but they did not eleborate, so I am confused as to the benefits.
Would be most grateful if you could shine some light on the subject

[Cheredanine]

Ok let';s slim down your options a little, let';s consider
taranis qx7
Turnigy evo
Flysky

(There is little point in getting an X9D/X9D+ nowerdays unless you fly a vast array of craft if different type)

So starting with the taranis
This is the stock radio for most pilots (I would say over 90% of the pilots I fly with use a taranis) it will do everything you ever want, it is well documented, any problems almost anyone can help you with, and you can pretty much gairentee any issues will be looked at. Recievers at small, ideal for quads, cheap, with antenna diversity. Protocols are always supported

Evo - a bit of a new kid on the block, quality - time will tell, good if you are a thumber (someone who controls the sticks only with thumbs) not good at all for a pincher (someone who holds the sticks between thumb and forefinger) as your forefinger won';t fit. Very limited functionality, but more than enough for quads. Less choice/capability for recievers, less knowledge and support but will improve

Flysky - bottom of the Range built as cheap as possible, generally bigger, more expensive recievers, just mah wouldn';t buy one unless I really didn';t have the money for one of the other two

[SpeedyGonzales]

Have learnt more about the transmitters and what I may require them to do.

For the switches, it seems I would require :
2 position switch for arming the quad
2 position switch for turning lights on/off
2 position switch for the buzzer

3 position switch for flight modes

switches to change PID setttings on the fly using the OSD in betaflight to display live PID values
3 position switch to select roll, pitch, yaw
3 position switch for P, I or D
3 position switch for increasing or decreasing the selected item

Some questions :
for the rates and expo does one generally require a switch for those and/or use the rotary dials, or is that all setup well from the flight controller?

It seems the ergonomics, the ';look'; and the price of the qx7 favour it, but if I want to implement the PID changes using the switches while flying instead of landing and using the tyranis computer to change the PID';s, I have seen this is done through LUA script. The qx7 would not have enough switches unless there is a way of setting up extra channels which are controlled on the tyranis computer?

I have not been able to find out if it would be possible to add on an extra switch on the qx7 as one is able to do on the x9d?
Also if the rotary dials are not required for adjusting rates/expo then would be possible to change the rotary dials for 6 position rotary click switches as one can do on the x9d?

[Cheredanine]

Just ripping this appart a bit mate

Have learnt more about the transmitters and what I may require them to do.

For the switches, it seems I would require :
2 position switch for arming the quad

First remember this is gonna last you past the point where you are a beginner, so best to cover both eventualities

Most pilots I know use a 3 posn switch for arm - disarm/ arm/ arm and air mode

2 position switch for turning lights on/off

No, no one does this even if some of the pdbs let you, lights are either on or they are not on the quad

2 position switch for the buzzer

For a beginner fair enough although all pilots I fly with have ditched this ages ago, if you have a buzzer on the quad it is generally set for low voltage alarm and will go off whilst you are searching

3 position switch for flight modes

Again for a beginner fair enough but most pilots ditch angle and horizon pretty quickly unles they fly line of sight

switches to change PID setttings on the fly using the OSD in betaflight to display live PID values
3 position switch to select roll, pitch, yaw
3 position switch for P, I or D
3 position switch for increasing or decreasing the selected item

No betaflight osd uses sticks for this.
You are getting confused with old old old style

Some questions :
for the rates and expo does one generally require a switch for those and/or use the rotary dials, or is that all setup well from the flight controller?

One doesn';t, one doesn';t change rates and expo once they are how you like them and you learn how you like them pretty quickly, messing around with them will mess up your flying
You set them where you want and that is what you use

It seems the ergonomics, the ';look'; and the price of the qx7 favour it, but if I want to implement the PID changes using the switches while flying instead of landing and using the tyranis computer to change the PID';s, I have seen this is done through LUA script. The qx7 would not have enough switches unless there is a way of setting up extra channels which are controlled on the tyranis computer?

Most people don';t change pids in the air, land and change them. Bf osd and mwosd do this with sticks.

You are not gonna be perpetually changing pids, you set them up and tune them, then done.
I take a windows tablet to the field with me

I have not been able to find out if it would be possible to add on an extra switch on the qx7 as one is able to do on the x9d?
Also if the rotary dials are not required for adjusting rates/expo then would be possible to change the rotary dials for 6 position rotary click switches as one can do on the x9d?

Don';t see why not but not seem anyone ever try
Seriously you are overthinking it.
I use two switches on all my quads, and honestly one of those is habit, I don';t actually use it

[SpeedyGonzales]

Thankyou kindly for all your advice, so qx7 is going to be more than sufficient as you had suggested. Shall go ahead with it and start practicing with it on the simulator (i';m currently using my playstation controller).

[Cheredanine]

That would be what I would do.
Qx7 has more switches than you will need

[iwchris]

[quiote author=SpeedyGonzales link=topic=21527.msg194902#msg194902 date=1497142715]
Hello to everyone,

Would like your advice on what steps I should follow to progress from the cheerson cx-10 to freestyle please.

I started off with a phantom 3 a couple of weeks back, lovely for video footage, fantastically stable and equally boring to pilot after a few flights.

Thankfully from youtube searching on the phantom I watched some freestyle quad videos and I am hooked .

To master the basics I have purchased a cheerson cx-10 tx and have been flying that around the past few days. I am wondering what quad to progress to next to master more techniques.

Should I move straight to a race drone and fly it in stability mode while learning more advanced techniques on the transmitter (currently do not have a transmitter) connected to computer simulation. Or to a Tiny Whoop type of quad and to the race drone later on.

I have previously been into r/c cars, boats and a little foray into planes. I am an electronic engineer so should be handy with building.
[/quo


I have only been into quads for about 2 months now, I been fixed wing for a lot of years though, I started with a Syma x5 in the garden, its really just a toy but I learnt a lot, then while building a 250 from scratch, purchased a Mini Whop for indoors with goggles, I feel I have progressed well with these two quads, and have over the last 2 weeks got the 250 flying, and with some PID tuning all picked up from YouTube, I am having some good flights, still a long way  to go though, but very pleased.
My advice is Go For IT with loads of practice of something small.

[SpeedyGonzales]

Thankyou for your reply. Did you go for the tiny pr was it another whoop Model you went for?