F4 flight controller

[Badger]

I would have put this in the FC section but here isn';t a general and wasent sure which one it should go in!!

Has anyone seen or used this flight controller

http://www.getfpv.com/flight-controllers/f4-advanced-flight-controller.html

Looked fairly cheap for an F4!! I';m looking for an F4 FC for my first build and didn';t want to push the budget up too much, saw this and thought hmmmm!!

It looks fairly basic with no OSD but for the money!

Thoughts??

[atomiclama]

If you want basic then it should be fine.

I';m waiting on this.
http://www.banggood.com/Raceflight-Betaflight-CC3D-REVO-F4-STM32F405-Flight-Controller-with-VbatBuzzer-p-1087561.html

Which looks like it has a bit more connectivity. We will see. Oh and it';s cheaper.

[Cheredanine]

Oddly I don';t go for "cheapest" on the FC front.
The best f4 I have is the bluejayf4
(Electricwingman but currently out of stock)
It really helps when the board designer is one of the most prolific developers :))

[atomiclama]

Who is the designer?

I stick with cheap as it doesn';t bother me too much when I destroy it, too much hacking them about.  ::)

[Luke]

Who is the designer?

I stick with cheap as it doesn';t bother me too much when I destroy it, too much hacking them about.  ::)

I used this F4 for a couple of weeks until my quad exploded on impact. I pushed it to 8k/8k with acc disabled. It flew great. Gutted it died.

Edit: The banggood one I mean.

[Cheredanine]

Who is the designer?

I stick with cheap as it doesn';t bother me too much when I destroy it, too much hacking them about.  ::)

Jason Blackman (Blckmn on RC groups)

[Badger]

I was after an f4 as I wanted to run multishot!! But as it was my first quad I didn';t wanna spend the earth!! I did think about buying a bluejay but again as it';s my first I didn';t wanna risk spending loads then having it crash and BURN!!!!!!!!!!

[Cheredanine]

Well my bluejay is in my scx, fastest/best quad I have, used it for all the early Dev dshot testing (built in sdcard reader means you can take blackbox logs, any problems you can have a do yourself or provide the bblog to devs, also very useful for tuning) and never managed to get processor load over 20% whatever I enable

[Badger]

I';ve been doing some reading on one shot and multi shot!! And then I came across D Shot!!! Then my head started to hurt a little lol!!!! I looked at the kiss flight controller but is that best used with the kiss esc';s?? It actually worked out at about the same price as the one I listed above!! I know kiss are good but didn';t know where the stood on the f scale? Or are they completely different all together??

[Cheredanine]

Dshot is still in development, it represents a step forwards of PWM based protocols (PWM, oneshot and multishot)
It will run on pure kiss
It will run on blheli_s escs however higher frame rate versions usually require a capacitor to be removed from the board, the betaflight wiki has a list of escs and what caps to remove. Esc manufacturers will soon start producing dshot escs that are basically the blheli_s esc without the caps (dys have stated in the test thread theirs will shortly be available, tbs have stated their bulletproof v2s will run up to dshot300 without modification and dshot600 if you remove the cap (they have issued a 2 page PDF on the subject)

Flight controller wise, again refer to the betaflight wiki to a degree you are at the mercy of the FC manufacturer, it certainly won';t run in f1s

The wiki shows what FCs have already successfully been tested so are safe to buy really, final release may still be a bit off

[Badger]

Yeh i had gathered it was still in Dev mode and I';m not experienced enough yet to be messing with it but I wanted to run multishot as it seems to be the most up to date protocol!!

Il have a look at betaflight wiki and see what it says!!

Thanks guys!!!

[Cheredanine]

MS will run on any blheli_s esc and technically any FC, although would suggest f3 or later

TBH I will fall off my chair if you can notice any difference between ms and at least os42

Dshot is worth bearing in mind because it is unquestionably the way forwards and has some great advantages, I would aim for dshot 300 which you will probably be able to run without modding the esc

[teslahed]

I';ve had some success with the Omnibus F4;

https://nathan.vertile.com/blog/2016/10/12/omnibusf4/#pinouts

It has the built in betaflight OSD that you can configure from the betaflight GUI, which is a very nice feature if you run an OSD. I have got Dshot working on mine.

[Cheredanine]

I';ve had some success with the Omnibus F4;

https://nathan.vertile.com/blog/2016/10/12/omnibusf4/#pinouts

It has the built in betaflight OSD that you can configure from the betaflight GUI, which is a very nice feature if you run an OSD. I have got Dshot working on mine.

:) started using runcam arrow v2, hs1177 with built in voltage sensor and osd, v1 was trash but v2 is brilliant

[Badger]

Yeh I think to be honest like you say I doubt I';d be able to tell the difference but I like to be on the front of technology!!

I think the idea is to go for multi show with a FC and esc capable of running D shot!! I don';t have a problem with computers and firmware it';s just getting to know what';s what as I am very new to it!!  Also trying to restrain myself from spending a small fortune to possibly blitz it up a tree lol so I';m trying to find a balance!!!

[Cheredanine]

Well tbh then I would look for an f3 flight controller that is on the list as running dshot, such as lux.
Esc wise, bizarrely a lot of the cheap escs seem to cope quite well with dshot, I gues cos the manufacturers didn';t bother with smoothing the signal.

Spedix are by far the cheapest blheli_s escs

[mrmurder1975]

Badger,

Getting Dshot up and running is pretty easy. No more difficult than flashing your fc with the alpha of Betaflight and flashing fw to esc';s.  Well, marginally more difficult but as long as you can read, you are good to go!

Some moron made a guide to the basics which will get you going.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNpchsV9uVs   Links to everything you need are below the video.

Once done, it is highly recommended to read the Dshot section of the Betaflight wiki.

https://github.com/betaflight/betaflight/wiki/BetaFlight%20and%20Dshot




Also, fwiw, the bluejay f4 is an awesome flight controller. Best i';ve had, and i';ve had a few!

[kilby]

I';m a little bit tempted to try out the Brain FC (though that has been the case for ages) on the Morphite as I can';t see any upgrades needing to take place for absolutely years.

I';m not too worried about dShot (regular Oneshot is more than enough for my flying) but it would offer a chance to try dRonin and if I didn';t like that then just flash but to betaflight (or cleanflight if the get around to targeting the board)



Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Badger]

I did notice that a lot of he cheaper esc';a were on there I think the new v2 race stars will handle dshot 300 without the capacitor remover, Cheredanine why just out of curiosity would you recommend an f3 over an f4??

[Badger]

I just looked on getfpv.com at it says the Lux FC has been discontinued and the V2 is on pre order??

[Cheredanine]

Lol mainly price and time it has been around/stability of code.
Don';t get me wrong, the best FC I have is bluejay f4, highly recommend it, but that isn';t the cheapest FC out there (although nowhere near the cost of some)

Couple of little known facts you don';t get told:
Although you would thing f4 is better than f3 and it does run faster/ has lest load for the same code, f3 processors came out more recently than the f4 (f3 is more modern)
The f3 has built in inverters so you can use stuff like sbus and smartport on any uart, the f4 doesn';t have the inverters (it is like an f1) so the flight controller designers have to put an inverter for each uart on the board they generally don';t do that, they pick one or two, so you have slightly less flexibility.

However really about budget, as above, absolutely given a choice, bluejay f4.
But if all you want is a relatively cheap FC that will work with dshot and you are happy running loops speeds that are generally quoted as absolutely fine (8/2khz with shot300) you can easily do this on an f3

Edit: yep lux v2 is coming out, but it is still f3, they have changed the gyro though
Still get the v1 from uk suppliers though
Other ones that were well supported from the dshot perspective:
Omnibus
I have it running on a motolabs cyclone but you have to use the ppm pin as motor 1
Dtfc (really nice but stayed away from recommending it as to get the best from this board you also use an osdoge and it becomes 70+ quid for the two boards

(And of course, given the developer involved, the bluejay again)

Honestly right now I am waiting for bluejay to come in stock to Electricwingman for two new quads, both will also use foxeer arrow, escs are tbs on one and cicada sunrise on other, motors brother hobby on both (tornado t2 on one and returner v4 on other, both 2206 2300kv)
There are numerous choices on the escs but that setup is pretty damn unbeatable. Will have 4 quads set up like that when I am done

[Badger]

Like u say there are so many around to choose from, at the minute I';m not going to notice the difference in loops times from 8k/8k to 8k/2k!!!  I think the other thing is there are so many good FC';s around and I gather most that use prefer there own!! It';s a bit like an apple android argument !! You';all always get a good recommendation lol

Il have a look later on tonight when I';m home, just need to make my mind up and pick 1 lol 🙈!!

Thanks for taking the time to educate as well I really appreciate it, !!

Might see if I can find myself a nice Black Friday deal lol!! I';m also going to the drone show on the 4th!! Try and educate myself a little further!!! I think they have some workshops on 250 builds!!

[Cheredanine]

So if you want real advice, describe the other kit you are using and what you are after, for example no point in setting an FC with a built in pdb or osd if you have a pdb you want to use or you aren';t bothered about an osd or already have one or use a cam with one

Just been told bluejay have arrived at electric wingman, just need processing and adding to stock btw

[Badger]

Ok so at present I haven';t brought anything apart from a 9xr pro radio and an xjt module for it which I have been using on a sim!!

I';ve decided on this frame

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=262629906100&category=182198&pm=1&ds=0&t=1479992927265

I was gonna buy a Robocat but decided there';s too many parts to possible break and plus I do like the look of this frame!!

It does come with a matek pdb not sure if it';s any good??

I was thinking about going for emax 2205 2300kv red bottoms, I have heard they can suffer a little with vibration but have also read some very good reviews!!

Esc';s not too sure possible race star 30A V2';s

4s battery

Run cam swift for FPV,

Was gonna go for Sky x4r Reciever

http://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/frsky-x4r-sb-eu-lbt-316ch-receiver-with-sbus-cppm-and-telemetry

Not too sure about a video TX yet as I haven';t got that far!!

I have a pair of fatshark predator v2 which I picked up cheap and I brought a skyrc imax b6 mini and yes I brought a genuine lol!!

Am I missing anything??

N if your new FC';s are about to turn up then you';ll have something to keep you busy lol

[Cheredanine]

Ok so at present I haven';t brought anything apart from a 9xr pro radio and an xjt module for it which I have been using on a sim!!

I';ve decided on this frame

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=262629906100&category=182198&pm=1&ds=0&t=1479992927265

much much much better frame than a robocat. It is a qav-x clone, the Chinese ones are pretty good, a bit surprised by "uk supplier" as they could get sued for copyright but skipping blithely past that, probably a banggood drop ship, wouldn';t criticise this choice

I was gonna buy a Robocat but decided there';s too many parts to possible break and plus I do like the look of this frame!!

It does come with a matek pdb not sure if it';s any good??

The matek pdbs are not bad, wouldn';t gripe, depending on what FC you use

I was thinking about going for emax 2205 2300kv red bottoms, I have heard they can suffer a little with vibration but have also read some very good reviews!!

You hit the nail on the head, emax red bottoms are (performance wise) pretty good. But they do have a nasty habit of producing noise.

I would much rather buy cobra champions if you are gonna fly light props like hq5040 triblades or something like brotherhobby 2206 2300kv tornado T2, both of those will make setting it up much easier, give you the same perforce and are roughly in the same price bracket as the emax

Esc';s not too sure possible race star 30A V2';s

Perfectly good, essentially rebadged sunrise cicada, but you will be waiting a while - based on recent orders about a month - for them
You might try spedix 25 or 30a from U.K. Stockists if you are on a budget should cost you about 7 quid each

4s battery

Run cam swift for FPV,

Swift was my go to cam but moved to foxeer arrow, it has a built in osd with a voltage sensor - see below]

Was gonna go for Sky x4r Reciever

http://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/frsky-x4r-sb-eu-lbt-316ch-receiver-with-sbus-cppm-and-telemetry

Will work but recommend replace with:
http://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/frsky-xsr-eu-lbt-16ch-mini-receiver-with-sbus-cppm-and-telemetry
Just as good but smaller

Not too sure about a video TX yet as I haven';t got that far!!

Recommend foxeer switcher with tbs triumph antenna

I have a pair of fatshark predator v2 which I picked up cheap and I brought a skyrc imax b6 mini and yes I brought a genuine lol!!

Am I missing anything??

N if your new FC';s are about to turn up then you';ll have something to keep you busy lol

So first pint that may help, I have qav-x build post in the 250 builds forum, essentially the same frame, may be of help

Next- you can use the matek but depends which board it is,
I would suggest running both the cam and the vtx from a 12 v reg (some cams struggle with 5v regs and not a good idea to power from the battery even if it falls within specs as the escs will produce spikes), there are mateks that have 12v regs just dunno if that one does

So you are lacking any way to monitor the battery voltage unles the frsky module and your radio talk common telemetry (I have both a Taranis and also a tango with an frsky module in it, the latter won';t do telemetry)

I prefer to have the battery voltage on the osd, hence what I put above about the fpv cam although you could also add a micro minim

You could also add a battery voltage alarm that beeps but difficult to find the space and you don';t always hear the beep

The reason that is relevant is you can get flight controllers with osd.
But at a basic level, I would recommend the bluejay (my qav-x will be getting one until the f7 I am getting sent goes in it) alternately you are looking at an f3 or f4, ideally without mpu6500 or 9250

Motolabs cyclone, omnibus f3 or f4, revolt f4?
Any of those would be ideal
(Suggest also look at the vibration isolation mounts I have put in my qav-x thread to mount the FC

[Badger]

Big Thanks!! Just put the little one in bed and sat down chance to have a look through this!!

I';ve looked at motors I can get the cobras and the tornados for ruffle the same price work out at around £60 for 4 the emax';s were £53 so not a lot of difference!!

I think I';m gonna go for a omnibus f3 flight controller £33.50 from unmanned tek as it comes with built in OSD and has a voltage regulator?? Will that be ok to run the vtx??  Thinking about it being about it seeing my battery voltage will be very handy!!  Il check that cam out as well!!

I';m gonna order the frame tonight so I can have a look at the pdb when it comes.

What c rating would you recommend for battery??

[Cheredanine]

The reg on the omnibus is 5v (quite a lot of FCs have them built in now, this is because the FC needs 5v, if there is a reg on the board you can plug it into battery voltage and it will a) act as a voltage sensor and b power the FC and anything attached to the 5v rail

But a lot of cams, including the swift, struggle on 5v and it depends what vtx you use, frequently they need more

So, I haven';t used the omnibus but they have a reasonably good rep, wouldn';t criticise it, but you are going to need a 12v supply (reg) really for the fpv kit (it could be OK but mid air isn';t the place to find out it isn';t quite)

If this is the matek you get:
http://www.hobbyrc.co.uk/matek-mini-power-hub-v3-pdb-5v-12v-bec
Then it has a 12v reg and you can use that for both the cam and the vtx.

If it isn';t the pdb you get with the frame, well it isn';t expensive or with a real qavx you get a lumenier 4power pdb - also available for under a fiver from hobbyrc, and you can add a pololu 12v reg to it (again available for hobbyrc), the latter pair you can see in my qavx build in the 250builds section of the forum

If you use the osd on the omnibus I would stick with the swift, although when you get chance, buy a gopro2 lense (2.5mm 170 degree fov) should cost less than a tenner and give you a better field of view

(The advantage of the arrow over any other fpv cam is it has a built in voltage sensor and osd chip, you can display voltage and timer without needing any other osd - if you check it out you need to be aware the v1 was a pile of crap, brilliant idea but implementation didn';t work, the v2, which is generally the only one available, fixed all the issues, but as I say, if you use the omnibus, no point, stick to the swift

Battery
Well the first trick is figure out how much power your motors will draw at full throttle on the cell count you are using with the props you are using
If you are gonna fly 4s, which most do, then miniquad test bench is a blindingly good resource for this, if you look up the brother hobby tornado v2 (which is probably what I would suggest) and look them up on there, running 5949 triblades you get around 1300g of thrust at 3grams per watt, that means about 430watts per motor, 4s=16.8volts, so 430wats =16.8 x the amp draw, or the amp draw =430/16.8 or about 26-27 amps each
That is on the bench, in the air you will draw somewhere near 25-30% less

This is also good for working out what escs you need

So playing it safe, you are not gonna pull more than 25amps per motor, or 100 amps total (rest of electrics may and an amp or so but largely insignificant

The ampage a battery can provide is its mah rating multiplied by its c rating, so a 1300mah 65-150c battery can, in theory, provide 85(ish - 1.3x65) amps constant and 195 amps burst, since you don';t stay at full throttle long, that would easily provide you what you need

The mah is basically how much fuel is in the tank, as a general guide with that quad I would look at 1300 to 1500 mah and expect 5 mins plus flight time depending on how aggressive you fly. A bigger mah battery is gonna weigh more and make the quad slower and less agile, if I were desperate for a very long flight time I might go to 1800mah but I know it would feel sluggish

Brand is also important, different brands "sag" voltage differently i fly either turnigy graphene 65-150c or drone labs chaos edition 75-150c and would recommend both, gens ace tattu and turnigy nanotech I have also used, the tattu are good, the nanotech are ok. (As are hobbyrc own brand)

Other brands I don';t use and can';t really other comment on other than if you buy cheap or bad brands, you will get bad voltage sag, short flight times and short battery life

Also recommend looking up multirotor spares, they sell little clips for balance leads on lipo s which are very useful and also forevertube antenna mounts for standoffs which work on the frame

[Elmattbo]

Cheradine your last 2 posts deserve a thread of their own! [emoji122]Frankly I don';t know where you get the time and money to stay on top of this stuff!

To add to the battery list, turnigy multistar are almost as good as the graphene on my quad. They are 1400';s so a little longer but not as fat as the graphene abd weigh a lot less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Badger]

Elmattbo il second that!!! Cheredanine Thanks for info!! I ordered my frame last night so il see what pdb it comes with and will go from there, I looked at where you ordered your bluejay from and it';s cheaper than from them direct I worked it out at £53 with shipping and they have it up at £42.50 I';m gonna stick with the omnibus though!!

And thanks again!! Il bear it all in mind and take your recommendations when ordering all the rest of my bits!!!

And thanks elmattbo for the battery recommendation!!