Aircraft retrieval systems (black box)

[ashutchy]

I';ll plug it wherever I can and it';s application is far from limited to the R/C market. I honestly believe you';re onto a winner here........if you can pull it off that is which I have no doubts about!

[Andy7]

I';ll plug it wherever I can and it';s application is far from limited to the R/C market. I honestly believe you';re onto a winner here........if you can pull it off that is which I have no doubts about!

Groovy! Thanks. If this does take off, then I';d feel obliged to make a little donation back to the forum - and certainly give credit to it';s place of conception.

[flybywire]

Okay. Challenge accepted.

I';m going to take a week to pull together some serious business-oriented notes on development costs, prototyping, testing and commercial manufacturing. I also need to then go and get CE certification if I';m selling this properly (it';s a stipulation of the first crowdfunding site I looked at and makes sense).

If I can make the figures work and there';s interest from people and vendors, then I might be able to justify it as a project that my company will take on.

If anyone wants to help out with tugging the sleeves of the vendors here then that';ll be a help. It can only work if there';s demand for a sufficient number of units... what that magic number is, I';m going to find out in the coming days.

... oh and a reminder that there';s NO GUARANTEE OF SUCCESS here! It might come to nothing, and there';s still a chance that it';s a stupid idea and simply won';t work! (nah, it';s a peach!)

Well, if it does work Andy, we';ll be queuing up to thank you, one and all!

[Andy7]

A quick poll to get me started on the GPS interface then:

I';d need to make this interface with as many different kinds of GPS system as possible, and I';ll make the interface in a number of flavours and grow that list as time goes on.

What GPS components are people using and are there any funky ways that you';re connecting to your FC. Presumably just plugging right in, maybe with a signal adaptor.

[Dek]

This is the bit I was going to ask about. I am using Neo 6M GPS into the APM 2.5';s GPS Port. How are you proposing to deal with the differing ways of getting the data back, the APM uses Mavlink for example, I';ve no idea what other FC';s use, do they use different protocols or will you intercept the GPS data before it gets to the FC? (asking because I don';t know)

I';m definitely up for this BTW, it';s the complete solution I';ve been looking for.

As an aside.....

In case others don';t know, there is a fascinating project at DIY Drones where a TeensyDuino 3.1 is used to convert  Mavlink data into Smart Port data that the FrSky X8r Rx can transmit to a Taranis TX. I get full telemetry in almost realtime, including GPS coords and all flight data right on the Taranis display. If the multi goes down or AWOL, the last GPS coords are there on the screen ready to input to Googlemaps. So, if you have a Taranis and fly APM or Pixhawk you can already get something similar while waiting for Andy';s device which does sound like the dogs doodahs. Teensy';s cost about 20 quid and the project is laughably easy to put together, it must be if I can do it.

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

[Andy7]

As an aside.....

In case others don';t know, there is a fascinating project at DIY Drones where a TeensyDuino 3.1 is used to convert  Mavlink data into Smart Port data...

This is pretty much the solution I have in mind. A uP will intercept the raw GPS data and pass it into the system as something it likes.
I may need to supply ';splitter cable'; or have a GPS in / out socket.

I';d start with the common protocols to cover 80-90% of what';s out there and then develop converter software on demand. I may make the GPS input as a separate module inside so that it can be swapped out if a different electrical profile is needed (ie 5v vs 3v kind of thing).

I';d allow the user to configure the kit by USB or something so that the vendors don';t have to stock more than a couple of types.

[Fletch]

With all the talk of GPS Antenna needing to be right side up...  How does the GPS antenna ins a phone work?

My phone will pick up a signal any way up and with sides covered...

Could you have a second slim antenna for the bottom of the quad?

[Andy7]

With all the talk of GPS Antenna needing to be right side up...  How does the GPS antenna ins a phone work?

My phone will pick up a signal any way up and with sides covered...

Could you have a second slim antenna for the bottom of the quad?

I';ll take a look at a built in GPS but I';m reluctant to double up on something that might already be on board. Also would increase costs unless it was an optional extra.
The advantage though is that it would be a KNOWN piece of hardware so saves on configuration problems.

[flybywire]

All my stuff is DJI proprietary gear, so unless you could tap into the canbus, no idea how you';d do that! 
My money would still be on a self contained unit, less to go wrong.

Surely there is mileage in the telemetry over UHF?  It';s all stuff that exists here and now, would just need customising in a single sealed unit.

[malc]

any body tried one of these
Mini Car Vehicle Real-time GPS/GPRS/G​SM Tracker System Locator Device Black | eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Car-Vehicle-Real-time-GPS-GPRS-G-SM-Tracker-System-Locator-Device-Black-/121388483800?_trksid=p2054897.l5659

[Andy7]

All my stuff is DJI proprietary gear, so unless you could tap into the canbus, no idea how you';d do that! 
My money would still be on a self contained unit, less to go wrong.

Surely there is mileage in the telemetry over UHF?  It';s all stuff that exists here and now, would just need customising in a single sealed unit.

I think you';re right. From what I can tell there are some pretty inexpensive receivers out there.

[G60jet]

Gps is a radio receiver at the end of the day, so unless the receiver is directional it will work upside down.

[Andy7]

Okay folks. Built in GPS is now OFFICIALLY in the spec.
I checked and It';s gonna be a piece of cake and not blow the budget.

You should now be able to hang this from your dog';s collar and trace him if he runs off :)

[Andy7]

Gps is a radio receiver at the end of the day, so unless the receiver is directional it will work upside down.

Yep, orientation is pretty much irrelevant afaik.

[flybywire]

You should now be able to hang this from your dog';s collar and trace him if he runs off :)

Yep, no reason to keep it all to the aeromodelling world, just rebrand it and double your market!

[orfordness]

any body tried one of these
Mini Car Vehicle Real-time GPS/GPRS/G​SM Tracker System Locator Device Black | eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Car-Vehicle-Real-time-GPS-GPRS-G-SM-Tracker-System-Locator-Device-Black-/121388483800?_trksid=p2054897.l5659

DONT, they are not GPS and only have gprs triagulation, i bought one and got a refund!

[flybywire]

There';s a whole raft of these things on ebay, all claiming to be the answer, but look dodgy to say the least.  Reminds me of a recent scam i saw on telly, by a couple selling hundreds of devices that claimed to do all kinds of stuff, was just a cheap 50p box from china with an aerial on it or some such, sold thousands before being rumbled, but some folk claimed they actually worked!

[Andy7]

Component prices for the GPS module are coming back from suppliers in China and are VERY encouraging even at fairly small volumes.

I reckon that if it';s just the price of a connector, I might see if I can put in a GPS output that will at least feed into some MultiWii FCs - that way it can justify its payload a little more as well, plus save the folk building their multirotors the expense of buying a separate unit.

[G60jet]

100 ft range
http://bravo.thetrackr.com/

[Andy7]

100 ft range
http://bravo.thetrackr.com/

Yep, saw this and another tracker in a post elsewhere here. I';m not sure you';re going to have much joy with just 100ft.

I';m getting some component quotes for the TX that gives 3km LOS range. That coupled with the flightpath trace, you should be able to drive out to where the signal ended if your bird flew MILES out of range and the signal will pick up from there.

[ashutchy]

Yeah I';ve found a few online too but most are limited to just 100ft of range. Okay it';s better than nothing but I';d hazard a guess that most flyaways/crashes occur more than 100'; away?

Looking forward to your first prototype Andy.

[Hands0n]

A quick poll to get me started on the GPS interface then:

I';d need to make this interface with as many different kinds of GPS system as possible, and I';ll make the interface in a number of flavours and grow that list as time goes on.

What GPS components are people using and are there any funky ways that you';re connecting to your FC. Presumably just plugging right in, maybe with a signal adaptor.

Generally, I use APM 2.5 FC with Crius CN-06v2 GPS units, as you say, plugged in to the FC.    I';d settled on the CN-06v2 as the best in its day, although it has been succeeded by the v3, I still subscribe to the v2 while they are available.

I will definitely be in the market for something like what is being discussed in this thread.

HTH

[ashutchy]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this one yet:

http://blutracker.com/

Is the technology in this unit of any use or inspiration Andy7?

[Andy7]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this one yet:

http://blutracker.com/

Is the technology in this unit of any use or inspiration Andy7?

This is quite cute. I';ll take a proper look later. It would be brilliant if I could get that kind of range over bluetooth as it would eliminate the need for RX hardware of any kind. But I';M a little skeptical about getting that kind of range over bluetooth and especially in the conditions that your craft might end up when downed.

Still, I';ll follow it through, and I like some of their ideas for the software.

[richardg6paj]

They have also had to reduce the power output to comply with European regulations.