Which phanton for first quad ?

[Mattpitts1974]

Hi There,

I';ve been reading the forum for a while and I';m interested to hear other opinions. 

I am planning to start some aerial filming with a gopro and trying workout the quickest route in.  I have never flown anything before and at the moment I';m not really in a position to buy any of the more pro gear, especially with ZERO experience of flying.  Ultimately I will also need FPV

The options I have narrowed down to so far are:

1.  buy one of the flame wheel kits, either F450 or F550 and start building up a system from there.
2.  buy the original phantom to get the hang of flying and filming before spending too much money.
3.  Buy a phantom equivalent.

My current budget is £500, and I realise that I will need to spend more than double this for FPV and gimbles etc, but I';m really only testing at the moment and what to test on the smallest budget possible, as everybody else does, obviously.

Building a flamewheel seems like it would give lots of flexibility on terms of components, motors, radios etc, but ultimately seems quite complicated for a beginner and also in the end pretty costly.

The original phantom, seems pretty cheap and there seem to be various options for upgrades and I see that the latest version 1.1.1 has the latest NAZA, so I assume I could cannibalise  a phantom for parts and use some of them on a flamewheel?

I';m not sure what equivalents to the phantom there are. 

When your on a budget there doesn';t seem like a simple answer, but any advice would be much appreciated

[guest325]

Save yourself a load of cash to start off with and get a Hubsan X4 or a Twister quad to learn how to fly a quad, either will more than pay for itself long term.....plus they are great fun!!!

[JonC]

I am biased towards the F450, mainly because of the possibility to upgrade it, but also that I found that fixing it post crash was cheap and easy.

You could get an F450 up and running for about £350 including radio gear and LIPO. Add a gimble and camera later, or you could use it to upgrade to a different frame such as the TBS Discovery. I picked my F450 up pre assembled with a naza lite for £200, one of the shops did a free build service which suited me at the time. I am currently putting together a TBS Disco and mulling over flight controllers.

Getting something small like a Hubsan X4 does help learning if you are new to flying. I struggled originally with nose in flying, spent a week annoying the wife with the X4 and my flying improved dramatically.

[teslahed]

I would definitely recommend something along the lines of a hubsan X4 just to learn the basics if you';ve never flown before.

After a couple of weeks with one of those you';ll either have a good level of basic skill or else realise that spending cash on something more expensive isn';t a great idea.

£40 or so for a basic mini quad isn';t much to spend if thinking of investing serious money.

[tupoar]

As someone who has been flying quads for only 6 months, I would have to agree with everyone else. Get something small like an X4 because you will crash, A LOT! It will teach you the art of control. Having a fancy quad is great but if you don';t know the basics, you';re not going to know what to do in the event of an emergency or the fancy stuff like GPS fails.

If a Hubsan X4 = Ford Fiesta and a Phantom = Ferrari, which is going to be best to learn to drive?

[Cloudbuster]

Ditto !!! Hubsan x4 is well recommended !!! Great fun and will hone ur flying skills !!! As for larger stuff BYOD is doing a bustin deal on the 450 with naza v2 RTF at £275 one of our club fliers bought one and was flying in a week and is already looking at upgrading !!!

Regards rob 

[Hands0n]

Yup - Hubsan X4.

I came at this hobby completely and totally wrong. Buying a 450 Firefly off an eBay builder as a ready to fly (RTF) kit and having zero experience of multi-rotors.  It all looked too easy.  The reality was completely different. Hardly a flight session without bringing back a bag of bits - usually broken rotor arms. They are designed to go first in a crash - and they do!

Quite some time later I picked up a Hubsan X4 specifically to teach myself Nose In flying and it was the best thing I ever did.  Not only did I very rapidly learn Nose In but also honed up my other regular flying skills.  Its also great for those days when you can';t get out where a quick tootle around the house with an X4 is possibly the best medicine to cure boredom that you can get

[nub]

got to agree the hubsan x4 was my 1st quad, it';s fun and a good tool for learning orientation.

[Friskle]

And another vote for X4 or better still a Twister quad, as that has slightly better learning modes, then a flip mode if you want it.

[mrmurder1975]

You may think it looks easy, and when you know how, it is. But its a 1000 times easier to crash than it is to fly. You do need to teach yourself the basics first, as we all did. You say you have zero flight experience, that is a recipe for disaster to be honest mate. You need to get a hubsan x4, twister or my personal favourite the blade nano qx, an awesome little machine to get the muscle memory.

There are a million and one videos of people getting a phantom or similar for their first multi rotor and 99% of those videos end up with a crash, or worse case scenario, the pilot getting severely injured.

The temptation to get the most expensive and advanced craft you can afford is massive. But unless you can afford to smash,crash and trash that craft, its really not a great idea.

If i were in your shoes, i would take the advice given, you will save yourself a ton of cash and quite possibly a hell of a lot of stitches.

By all means, get the phantom or whatever you decide on, but also buy one of the recommended quads above, leave the the phantom in the box and practise,practise,practise on the multi that wont cut you to the bone if you crash it into yourself (or anybody else).

Leave the phantom where you can see it, use it as incentive to get the skill';s you need to fly it and work your way up to it!

The analogy above was pretty spot on. You wouldn';t pass your driving test and jump straight into a Ferrari and expect to have the skill to handle that car without crashing it.

Slowly,slowly catchy monkey! ::) 

[H_Simpson]

IMHO I don';t think there';s anything wrong in buying a Phantom, (although I';d make sure it was a recent variety of the species).  It';s certainly a way into aerial photography and fpv that';ll get good instant results!  Obviously, they';re not the be all and end all of the multi-rotor world, just a RTF offering, but with a Naza flight controller onboard, they';re always going to be easy to fly.

I don';t really buy into the Hubsan thing myself, I';d see that as a waste of money, if I already knew my goal, as you obviously do.

Personally, I';d go with a 450 frame, Naza v2 with iOSD mini, GoPro H3 Black and H3-2D gimbal.  Add 4 emax/Tmotors/ 10" props, Afro 20a ESC';s, couple of 4 cell 3000 Zippy compact';s and you';re good to go (plus radio of course!!)
You';ll get invaluable experience putting it together, and I think you';re always going to take more care with something you lovingly put together yourself, as opposed to an off the shelf.

Don';t worry, they';re not that difficult to fly, just some folk seem to make it look like that!! (joke)

Oh yes RTFM and never, never, never be tempted to fly/maiden in your backyard, no matter how tempting it is, it will end in tears/tragedy!!

Here endeth the first lesson

Have fun out there, multi-rotors were designed with this in mind!

HS.

[tupoar]

IMHO I don';t think there';s anything wrong in buying a Phantom, (although I';d make sure it was a recent variety of the species).  It';s certainly a way into aerial photography and fpv that';ll get good instant results!  Obviously, they';re not the be all and end all of the multi-rotor world, just a RTF offering, but with a Naza flight controller onboard, they';re always going to be easy to fly.

I don';t really buy into the Hubsan thing myself, I';d see that as a waste of money, if I already new my goal, as you obviously do.

Personally, I';d go with a 450 frame, Naza v2 with iOSD mini, GoPro H3 Black and H3-2D gimbal.  Add 4 emax/Tmotors/ 10" props, Afro 20a ESC';s, couple of 4 cell 3000 Zippy compact';s and you';re good to go (plus radio of course!!)
You';ll get invaluable experience putting it together, and I think you';re always going to take more care with something you lovingly put together yourself, as opposed to an off the shelf.

Don';t worry, they';re not that difficult to fly, just some folk seem to make it look like that!! (joke)

Oh yes RTFM and never, never, never be tempted to fly/maiden in your backyard, no matter how tempting it is, it will end in tears/tragedy!!

Here endeth the first lesson

Have fun out there, multi-rotors where designed with this in mind!

HS.

Please do not take this as a pop at you H, but with the current climate of "fear it, ban it", then last thing anyone should be suggesting is that someone with absolutely no flying experience go an buy a Phantom have fun figuring out the rest. To me, it';s not about achieving your end goal as quickly as possible, it';s about working your way to your end goal. You might as well tell kids not to go to school and learn, just take the exams and it';ll be fine.

*Please read this as if I';m chuckling while I speak*

[mrmurder1975]

IMHO I don';t think there';s anything wrong in buying a Phantom, (although I';d make sure it was a recent variety of the species).  It';s certainly a way into aerial photography and fpv that';ll get good instant results!  Obviously, they';re not the be all and end all of the multi-rotor world, just a RTF offering, but with a Naza flight controller onboard, they';re always going to be easy to fly.

I don';t really buy into the Hubsan thing myself, I';d see that as a waste of money, if I already knew my goal, as you obviously do.

Personally, I';d go with a 450 frame, Naza v2 with iOSD mini, GoPro H3 Black and H3-2D gimbal.  Add 4 emax/Tmotors/ 10" props, Afro 20a ESC';s, couple of 4 cell 3000 Zippy compact';s and you';re good to go (plus radio of course!!)
You';ll get invaluable experience putting it together, and I think you';re always going to take more care with something you lovingly put together yourself, as opposed to an off the shelf.

Don';t worry, they';re not that difficult to fly, just some folk seem to make it look like that!! (joke)

Oh yes RTFM and never, never, never be tempted to fly/maiden in your backyard, no matter how tempting it is, it will end in tears/tragedy!!

Here endeth the first lesson

Have fun out there, multi-rotors were designed with this in mind!

HS.

you do make a good point, to an extent. but there are no short cuts to becoming competent in the hobby. Having a quad that makes things so much easier for you by more or less, flying itself, will not teach you anything. With the little hubsan or similar you will have to fly it, teaching yourself the fine control movements required to keep in a steady hover, or stick to a specific flight path.

With the fancy controllers such as the naza and similar, a lot of the work is taken away from the pilot and handled by all the gizmo';s in the little plastic box. While not a bad thing, if you have never flown anything before, i dont see how that is of particular benefit in regards to the learning curve required to become competent and above all, safe. These fancy controllers do fail,things do go wrong and you will be in a lot better position to deal with that situation if you can fly ';bareback'; than if you have never learnt to fly without the help of the advanced technology in todays flight controllers.

You can skip the ';baby steps';, the rtf quads are pretty much aimed at that end of the market. But it really is not advisable if you want to become good at what you do without the help of a flying computer.

[H_Simpson]

Please do not take this as a pop at you H, but with the current climate of "fear it, ban it", then last thing anyone should be suggesting is that someone with absolutely no flying experience go an buy a Phantom have fun figuring out the rest. To me, it';s not about achieving your end goal as quickly as possible, it';s about working your way to your end goal. You might as well tell kids not to go to school and learn, just take the exams and it';ll be fine.

*Please read this as if I';m chuckling while I speak*

Well, I guessed this would be the response (jokey as it is).  I';m not sure where this fear/paranoia thing is coming from?  I fly all over the place, only ever had interest/fascination in what I';m doing by passers by.  I make sure I fly well away from populated areas, and the only folk I usually encounter are dog walkers (and cows).  I put up with them, they put up with me.  Live and let live, don';t let pen pushers spoil your day, we fought a war or two for our freedom here in Europe, (lest we forget?)

BTW I see masses of folk on here posting footage of flying in their back gardens, then dispensing judgement on others-not on.

As for getting experience, just fly the thing well away from folk, it';s no harder to fly than a Hubsan or whatever, set it up carefully (millions of tutorials on the tube) keep it close for first half a dozen flights or so, test the RTH/RTL when you';re confident the thing is ok.

Only post harmless/boring/anonymous stuff on the tube, and keep the decent stuff for yourself/mates.

Nothing wrong with RTF, (IMHO) as long as use common sense.

[nub]

aye go ahead, buy a phantom, don';t bother learning how to fly it properly and don';t come crying when it goes AWOL

enjoy and have fun!

[Friskle]

Totally agree H, nothing wrong with RTF, some people dont want to build, but thats not what the thread topic is about.

They are substantially easier to fly than most other things, but, for some, its still very easy to get in trouble, fixed wing are relatively easy to fly, as is anything..when you can, a new starter to fixed wing, you always get one, that turns up with an expensive balsa warbird, they wont take your advice, then they are putting two bin bags in the car, cause it all went wrong, when all they needed was a £30 foamy...

Its simple, learn and crash on something cheaper, than regretting just picking bits up that used to cost 300 quid +

You can also chealy find out if the hobby is actually for you or not, if not you aint spent a fortune..

Now on the other hand, people can buy what they want and fly what they want, they dont need to take anyones advice, but if asking for advice, at least weigh up what everyone says first.

[mrmurder1975]

well op, its your money and your decision at the end of the day. you asked for advice and got it! do with it what you will.

I still say you would be unwise to spend £300+ on a rtf quad to learn on,But you might be a natural and take to it straight away, who knows!

Good luck with whatever you decide and keep us posted! 

[kilby]

I got some minimal flight practice with a dopey little IR controlled Ninja heli (3 channel) and a Hubsan xx

They where what made me decide to get a 450 clone in the first place as I discovered that I actually liked flying things.

Having had some playing with those made life a lot easier and understandable when I got something larger.

Yes you can learn to fly with all available stabilisation and gps but it really doesn';t prepare you for free flight,  the Hubsan (or similar) will give you an idea of the reality and for less than the price of an replacing a couple of full size motors.

As Mr H Simpsons suggestion of a 450 plus gimble,  osd and a gopro, oh dear you really are living up to a cartoon persona

There is nothing wrong with RTF,  it';s a route that I partially took, though after a couple of crashes it definately became my quad once the surgery was over.

If you want RTF you don';t have to go for the Phantom there are build services with considerably better backup than you will get with most Phantom resellers.

Look up Peter King on YouTube as one example of such a service.

Phantoms are nice (I';ve played with them) but if you make quad flying a hobby you will probably want something more versatile after a few months.

If you just want a small camera platform or something to take out once in a while then it will more than suffice.

[Cyberdave]

You've had lots of great advice from experienced quad flyers already and I don't pretend that I'm by any means an expert but I'll offer my thoughts as a new quad flyer.
Firstly I should say I fly planks and have had minimal heli experience (MCX and MSR).
However I was recently looking to buy a quad and looked at a few things before I got a real bargain on a used Phantom 1.1.1.
I understand what people are saying about learning to fly a quad without GPS – yes it can fail, however the way I see it is different.  If you buy a quad with GPS and use it in GPS mode initially you have a safety net that will give you a little more confidence.  The phantom has the "self centering throttle" feature which means that if you get into trouble you can simply let go of the sticks and the sensors on the quad will bring it back to level hover and hold it there until you can recompose yourself.   You can still land the quad manually.  Also once you gain more confidence you can switch out of GPS mode into attitude mode which means you still have the gyros working for stability but the quad has a more aggressive capability.   Then there's another even more aggressive attitude setting for those who are really adventurous.  Use the GPS to help you initially then progress to attitude mode when you understand the flight movements and feel comfortable with the sticks.
To illustrate my point, I have two mates both of whom have NO model flying experience.  With my reassurance and the knowledge that in an emergency the GPS would take over they have both lifted off, flown circuits and landed my phantom without any issues and both occasions the wind was fairly strong.  The phantom copes with wind easily and remains pretty smooth so no need to panic there!
Always find a wide open field with no pedestrians or animals that you could injure.  Remember SMALL stick movements!    Start slowly by lifting off doing some minor movements then landing, don't worry about landing it at your feet – better to keep it a few yards away so you don't fly into yourself!  That said, keep it fairly close so you can clearly see orientation!
If you go along to your local club there will be guys there happy to help you and watch you fly, much better than trying to learn on your own.
The Hubsan 4 or other small quad is a great suggestion but don't rule out the phantom as your first quad either.