Glasgow helicopter crash

[ChrisH]

Firstly my feelings go out for all those involved in this horrific accident.

Secondly it makes you realise just how dangerous vehicles that rely on rotors can be in the event of a failure. I';m sure that the helicopter would have undergone fastidious maintenance and pre flight checks. Yet... RIP.

Wrong place wrong time. Can happen to anyone. Take care out there guys.

[ericb]

The pub is on the corner of The Clyde and in the city centre. This could have been a whole lot worse, a tragedy none the less. This is a very busy pub at the weekends with the music.The Police helicopters take of at the SECC and fly up the Clyde then land coming down it I think for safety reasons. This is a mile or so from the take off point.

[teslahed]

Without wanting to take advantage of this tragedy, I do wonder if this will rebalance the issue regarding the safety of ';drone'; aircraft.

In reality if the police flew ';drone'; aircraft rather than full sized helicopters, whenever practical, we';d probably see more crashes because the technology is newer.

But none of them would be anywhere near this bad.

This could have been a whole lot worse, a tragedy none the less.

Given there were almost 200 people packed into the very small pub that';s debateable, but i am sure you are right - it could have been worse.

[n506]

They were very lucky not to have a fire as a result. An electric drone, even of significant size, wouldn';t represent nearly the risk of fire in the event of an incident, and wouldn';t have caused any damage to the building structure. Also the parts are simpler and the redundancy can be much better.

The technology to pilot safely with near 360 views at high enough resolution to work safely is needed before it becomes a safe option in tight confines. Not exactly your high altitude predator drone style flights.

[ericb]

A is where the pub is and B the Helipad.

[Marty McFly]

RIP,its a tragedy and my thoughts are with every one,marty, :scotland:

[Jimbodiddly]

Saw this unfold last night, terrible thing to happen. Thoughts are with those injured etc.

[nub]

yer heard something about this last night on the TV in the background, bit of a mad one.

just read there are a least six dead, RIP.

[ericb]

Irony is the building directly behind the pub on the next street is the High Court and had it fallen directly opposite on the other side of the Clyde, thats the Sherrif Court.

[powerlord]

It was gonna happen sooner or later.  Our Suffolk force has one that costs us about 5 million a year.  They spend the majority of the time hovering over built up areas training...  Remember this is Suffolk..  We have amongst the lowest crime in Britain. 

Maybe an accident like this will stop them fanning around over built up areas all the time...  When I';m flying my paramotor and I see them a few miles away you need to watch them like a hawk...  They rarely spot other air traffic. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Hands0n]

Most certainly a tragedy of epic proportions. Although reading the Sky news today it seems that this is the latest in a series of Police helicopter accidents, the most lethal by all accounts.  RIP indeed, these are pilots at the top of their game with equipment that most likely exceeds anything else in terms of maintenance and due diligence.  It really just goes to show that no matter what is done, the risk in aviation is ever present.

[Biffa]

Very sad indeed. That';s the thing with being in the air, if stuff goes wrong it usually does in a bad way.

Could have easily been a lot worse, thankfully it wasn';t.

[n506]

Indeed,  I suspect there won';t be nearly as much public sympathy if this turns out to have been a training or "watching drunks on friday night" mission. I feel it';s up in the air far too often above the city and they certainly make no attempt to stay above the clyde or other unoccupied land as they were trying to make out on the news the other morning.

[Ross]

At 5 million quid a pop and 40 hours maintainance for every hour flown, (at least three grand an hour flying cost) these are damn expensive machines for chasing spotty kids nicking cars from driveways
--Chief Constables status machines I reckon.

[rsmith21]

Its a tragedy and my sympathy for all concerned, just out for a social event and this happens. Given the problems the North Sea helicopters are having its really only a matter of when is it going to happen, a machine will fail eventually no matter how well its looked after or who is flying it, its so sad it resulted in so many deaths.

I wonder if there was any communication between the copter and the control centre before it went down.

[XH558]

What a shock ... apparently - so reports say - rotors were seen to stop completely - that is most unusual ...

One of the poor bobbies on board was a young woman PC Kirsty Nelis and by a twist of fate one of the first rescue fire officers on scene was her brother in law 



Such a shame ... but as has been said there is a cruel inevitability about these things ... 

[n506]

Can';t really say I believe the reports about the rotors being stopped completely. Even a gearbox seizure would probably break something before the rotors would come to a complete stop that quick. That said, I don';t think they were under any sort of power when they hit, or else the rotors would be smashed to pieces and lying in bits everywhere I';d have thought, rather than sticking up almost complete out of the roof.

[kilby]

One thing that host me was the police spokesman who talked about the loss of the crew being so terrible and everybody else being almost an afterthought, possibly not intentional, BUT.....

I';m wondering if it was a necessary flight or yet another training flight.

I spend so much time watching helicopters when I was younger and I love the things, but over the last few years I have been watching the number of police copters and wondering just how much value they are getting from it.

Apparently the local police force had their 2 drones out last weekend (have had them for about 18 months) so I suspect they have gained some level of confidence in using them.

Whatever the cause its just so horribly bad for all those involved and it could have been so much worse.

[Hands0n]

We see them over Kent, often coming in from Essex (I don';t think Kent has any).  They';re usually hunting for someone judging by the steady hover and search pattern manoeuvres.   Always I wonder about the safety of being above heavily residential areas.

Drones are definitely the way forward for the various forces and agencies. Any damage they do from falling out of the sky, and they will do so, will be very localised and relatively minimal compared to what we';ve just seen happen.  And incidents like this are going to accelerate any move toward "drone" usage.  They';ve already got all of the video kit airborne, so there is little to stop the use other than confidence and legislation.

[n506]

I think the major lacking at the moment is reliable high definition video feedback in multiple directions to a control room. Without that, I don';t think they could operate safely over large enough distances to be useful as alternative to manned platforms. That said, I do believe that multicopters of equivalent size to a helicopter could be a much safer bet. They have far better redundancy, and much simpler componentry.

[Hands0n]

True, while not 100% failsafe an octocopter would have sufficient redundancy to mission abort and RTL in the event of a single rotor failure. Even a hex could do that, but with lesser capability.  It was interesting to watch the TED talk where the presenter clipped the props on a quad and it still managed to fly and land, albeit like a clown';s cycle, wobbling all over the place. So it can be done with today';s technology.

I think even the imaging isn';t a particular challenge - there are cameras now that mimic the eye of an insect in that they can pick up many different angles.  Its just going to take someone putting it all together to requirement.

[n506]

I';m quite sure the likes of predator drones have plenty of surrounding vision, so the technology just needs to be downsized so that control can be provided to a multirotor craft which is in the sub 100kg range with a minimum 1 hour flight time if that';s possible.

Radio transmission and reception would be more of an issue perhaps though in city conditions. You couldn';t have a situation of flying behind a large building and you lose control. Predator drones possibly use satellite to relay pictures back and issue control inputs, but I think there';ll be a delay of some sort in that which would make it unflyable. Probably they switch to direct radio to do final flights in to land (if this isn';t still autopilot at work), and otherwise just send commands of where to go on autopilot otherwise.

[n506]

So the intriguing news of the day:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/09/glasgow-helicopter-crash-investigation-no-evidence-engine-failure

I was betting on a gearbox meltdown given the "stopped" blades. I guess then that whatever caused the power failure (whether fuel/air/whatever) meant he had to flare the rotors to a stop to try and slow it up as much as possible before impact because he presumably had nowhere near enough height or space to autorotate.