My research has lead me to this - my mini racer!

[guest325]

After a lot of faffing about, theorising and bench testing this is the result of my findings.
I';ve ordered materials to make the frame, got an Acronaze mini to go on it and a mini parkflier rx to go with my Aurora 9.
Motors I think probably Sunnysky or emax 2204 2200kv running 6*4 props 12A Afro esc';s 3S 2200 30-40C batteries.
I shall probably use 450 or 500 Heli skids on it.
The tilted motors will give yaw similar to a V Tail and fast forward should be entertaining!

[philtrum]

I like the idea of that a lot

[bigred407]

Looks like an interesting build.

[xxpitt]

Can';t see how yaw will be any different? But I';ve not done any research. Looks a interesting build though

Edit:

Think I understand now actually

[nub]

yes interesting design, shall be keeping an eye on this to see how you get on.

[Friskle]

Can';t see how yaw will be any different? But I';ve not done any research. Looks a interesting build though

Edit:

Think I understand now actually

Gaui did it with the 500X, the explained reason at the time was, that if the thrust is vectored outwards, that yaw and stability would be more precise, due to moving in any given direction including yaw, its pushing against the opposite thrust, rather than moving on a vertical thrust pillar, so stability comes from it being a wider thrust footprint. Gaui had their motors tilted by 7 degrees, on the 500X i had when it came out, i do think it made a big difference, at least it did over the 330X on the same Gaui controller.

[guest325]

Gaui did it with the 500X, the explained reason at the time was, that if the thrust is vectored outwards, that yaw and stability would be more precise, due to moving in any given direction including yaw, its pushing against the opposite thrust, rather than moving on a vertical thrust pillar, so stability comes from it being a wider thrust footprint. Gaui had their motors tilted by 7 degrees, on the 500X i had when it came out, i do think it made a big difference, at least it did over the 330X on the same Gaui controller.

I';ve got it set at 10 degrees, any more and you could start to compromise vertical thrust!
The centre platform at the moment is for a 45mm wide FC so I shall probably make it narrower as I';m using the Mini Acronaze, less wind resistance 
The whole point behind this design is to make it as light as possible and have the least wind resistance as possible, plus better yaw characteristics, if things go well I shall then look at developing a faring for it - probably a teardrop shape!
Size wise it';s at the moment around the 330ish size, much smaller and gaps become smaller restricting airflow between the frame.
One of the other things I';m hoping is that it performs better in windy conditions.
Quick pic showing where esc';s to go:

[Hands0n]

That looks really nice Darrell - like the idea of the teardrop fairing.    Are we looking at wood framed?

[DebianDave]

Looks good. Will it need to pitch forward further than flat motors to achieve the same FF performance?

[malc]

with the pitch inwards will give stable flight --- put the pitch outwards and it wil go like a rocket --- think of the pitch on some fast heli';s
this is just a thought
malc

[dirtyharry]

You might need to reverse your prop directions or your yaw induced by the prop wash will be fighting the yaw produced by  torque roll  . Tilted motors on x designs r OK as there tilted into the centre so the prop wash doesn';t spin the quad, unlike your design.

Sorry if that doesn';t make sense I';m not very good at explaining things.

[guest325]

That looks really nice Darrell - like the idea of the teardrop fairing.    Are we looking at wood framed?

12mm sq CF tube for arms, 6mm round cf tube for spacers, 2mm ply for decks and 9mm ply for motor mounts ::)
Light and strong!!!

[guest325]

For your quad to yaw diagonally opposite motors have to speed up or slow down, with no vectoring of the thrust this is weak, with thrust vectoring it is improved, I didn';t want to go too far because thrust would be compromised!

[guest325]

Eu warehouse so could be a bit of a wait!  Only them with stock last night!
Got it wrong, 10mm sq cf
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F54972%5F%5FCarbon%5FFiber%5FSquare%5FTube%5F10%5Fx%5F10%5Fx%5F250mm%5FEU%5FWarehouse%5F.html
Tube
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F55572%5F%5FCarbon%5FFiber%5FTube%5Fhollow%5F6x750mm%5FEU%5FWarehouse%5F.html
Oops how did this get onto the order???
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F53909%5F%5FTurnigy%5FTalon%5FCarbon%5FFiber%5FQuadcopter%5FFrame%5FEU%5FWarehouse%5F.html
Figured I';d got too many projects on to make a big frame ::) ::) ::)

[guest325]

Can';t wait for bits to turn up so I';m going to make a prototype from wood and aluminium rod, at least I shall have a good idea of how well or bad it works before I start using cf parts, easier and cheaper with wood!

[guest325]

More work completed, changed design for deck - now all in one, cable tied to cross members isolated from frame by rubber foam pads.
Power distribution - I';ve cut myself some 1mm thick copper strip, 8mm wide and shall hot melt glue this to the base of the deck when I';ve soldered all of the wires I need to onto it. It seems like a nice easy way to distribute power to esc';s LED';s etc. maybe not the lightest but should be durable; it will the be insulated with more hot melt glue scrapped on thinly.
Shall be making a start on the wooden prototype tonight!

[guest325]

Just ordered motors, had a change of mind because most of the small motors I';d been looking at couldn';t be fixed on my preferred way - cable ties, I';ve not damaged any motors since using this method!
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F61497%5F%5FTurnigy%5F2211%5FBrushless%5FIndoor%5FMotor%5F2300kv%5FUK%5FWarehouse%5F.html
Will give me 400W on 3S with 6*4 props (100W each).

[guest325]

Just ordered motors, had a change of mind because most of the small motors I';d been looking at couldn';t be fixed on my preferred way - cable ties, I';ve not damaged any motors since using this method!
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F61497%5F%5FTurnigy%5F2211%5FBrushless%5FIndoor%5FMotor%5F2300kv%5FUK%5FWarehouse%5F.html
Will give me 400W on 3S with 6*4 props (100W each).

[guest325]

Motors have turned up,  look nice but proper dinky - I really hope they are going to have enough poke!!!
Pic shows one next to a Sunnysky 2212 980kv!

[guest325]

Props turned up today,  thanks Phil excellent service!!!
Just the green and orange ones the rest of the stuff is for one if my other projects. ::)

[Chami82923]

Them little 2211 2300kv motors are unbelievably powerfull for the size, just make sure you threadlock the grub screws that hold the motor bell to the mount. My first outing with them on my 250 was a hoot, hovered about a bit to tune the PID';s on the kk board, then when I was ready to go for it, with a power climb, the motors were powerfull enough to shatter two props at the same time, easy fix though.




Not sure why the pic has turned itself upside down, but you get the idea.

That 250 has been rebuilt about 6 times now, still my favourite to fly.

Callum

[guest325]

Them little 2211 2300kv motors are unbelievably powerfull for the size, just make sure you threadlock the grub screws that hold the motor bell to the mount. My first outing with them on my 250 was a hoot, hovered about a bit to tune the PID';s on the kk board, then when I was ready to go for it, with a power climb, the motors were powerfull enough to shatter two props at the same time, easy fix though.

Not sure why the pic has turned itself upside down, but you get the idea.
That 250 has been rebuilt about 6 times now, still my favourite to fly.
Callum

Greaf to hear that feedback,  I';ve used them on a 3D foamy plane but not on multis.

[atomiclama]

That';s better it was just messing with my brain 

[guest325]

At last some progress, I';ll let the piccies tell the story!
Frame mostly built, need to turn the cable ties around where the esc';s go and possibly go for one of my micro receivers (Frsky - for my Aurora9).
I';m going to make a loom for all electrical connections so can';t do any more until I';ve figured it out properly and misappropriated some wire from work ::)
Airframe weight 150gm (Wood/Aluminium), Carbon will be at least 50gm less. Weight of all bits except lipo about 490gm motor to motor 350mm.

[guest325]

Another failed project!!!
The frame in its current design is not torsional strong enough - it twists under load, to sort it out it would mean diagonal bracing which would increase weight and make it more difficult to build. The tilted motors doesn';t improve the yaw anywhere near as much as V tail so was a bit disappointing.
So I';m not wasting any more of my time trying to make it work!

[Hands0n]

Damn and blast. That was looking so good too ...  A great try there Darrell.