So who's responsible..

[Rafter]

Just ordered some equipment and got "free postage on orders over £100" but was then told that  "the Post Office will only cover goods up to £50, if you want to insure it, it';s £11+.".
I  told them that the goods remain the propery of the seller until delivered to the customer so they are therefore responsible for any non delivered item.
So, am I right, in which case it should be more widely known or am I wrong ?

[Britishguy]

BYOD ?

if so it';s a daft policy and i don';t agree with it

[Prometheus]

I agree with you.. how can the goods be yours if you never get them..

P)

[Hands0n]

They';re talking orbular things.  The DSR applies and it is explained very clearly on-line that the title of the goods does not pass to the buyer until the seller has actually delivered the goods to the consumer or their nominee.

http://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/distance-sales#Deliveryandrisk

Delivery and risk

Unless you both agree otherwise, you must deliver the goods to the consumer. This should be on the agreed delivery date, without undue delay, or not more than 30 days from the day the contract was made, depending on the contract.

If you do not deliver the goods, or fail to deliver them by whichever is the most appropriate of the following, the consumer can ask for a full refund:

the agreed delivery date
a revised deadline given by the consumer
within 30 days
You remain responsible for the goods until the consumer, or someone she has nominated, takes possession of them.

[philtrum]

Interesting post and one that I want to add another question to if people dont mind

If your given a selection of postage options including an insured postage but you choose a cheaper uninsured postage, in your mind does responsibility still lie with the supplier if it is undelivered ?

another take on this is if you buy from china and have it sent at a reduced declaration (not that anyone would do this of course), as the parcel is only then insured for the declared value.  if that did not turn up, would you expect full value to be replaced ?

the reason i ask is I';ve had a couple of non delivery claims out of about 900 orders, unfortunately none of them insured/recorded deliveries.

If in all cases the supplier is still responsible, whats peoples thoughts on only having recorded delivery options, which of course is a little more expensive for everyone including the supplier

Cheers
Phil

[flybywire]

Well, I guess in our small way, most of us are traders in one way or another, I refer of course to the great ';ebay';!  The principle of no goods no pay holds true here as anywhere I guess, the onus should always be on the seller to make sure the goods arrive, so of course that cost can either be passed on to the receiver of the goods, or not, as the seller sees fit.
It relies heavily upon the honesty of human nature , but I guess business cannot rely solely on this honesty alone, as it only takes one dishonest person to spoil it for all the rest.
That said, I sell my allotment produce on my garden wall and use an honesty box, which works 99.9% of the time.  In fact it';s probably 100% but some of the folk are a little elderly and sometimes mess up the change!

So, I personally rely on honesty for sales up to £30 (as it is covered by RM) and charge the requisite ';signed for'; options for over £30.
Usually I pass the cost on to the buyer, but my last sale for instance I underestimated the postage so took £4 out of the £24 profit.
Oh well that';s business!   

[barneyg]

If your given a selection of postage options including an insured postage but you choose a cheaper uninsured postage, in your mind does responsibility still lie with the supplier if it is undelivered ?

This is indeed an interesting question and to be honest I';ve always wondered why companies offer shipping options that don';t have enough insurance to cover the cost of the items being shipped.

[flybywire]

Also, speaking of China, a lot of the outfits are now shipping free, so not sure how this places UK sellers?

Not sure of margins etc here, but free postage rocks, I think it creates a ';something for nothing'; illusion, which most find rather appealing.

[Hands0n]

@philtrum - DSR does not appear to be discretionary ...

Unless you both agree otherwise, you must deliver the goods to the consumer.

So the dilemma for the distanced seller is all about making as secure a delivery as possible in terms of compensation should the delivery fail for any reason.  Do you, as seller, absorb the cost of insuring?  Or do you share the cost in some way, perhaps by adding a small percentage on the price?  Or do you pass that cost on by way of Signed For or other cover?  Any of those can impact your competitiveness and business viability.

I think that I would be happy to pay Signed For so there is cover should the package go astray. It isn';t foolproof, particularly if your courier of choice is a rogue and misdelivers and then washes their hands of any responsibility or liability.

[flybywire]

I noticed a while back that a couple of the ';more prominent'; and well known UK multi rotor online stores started charging inflated, signed for prices on any transaction, that';s why I don';t use them any more.

reverse caveat emptor perhaps? Seller beware!

[Hands0n]

Yeah, same here. I';m not looking for a free ride. But charging a premium for postage is taking the pee.    Same goes for EBay sellers.

[flybywire]

Yeah, same here. I';m not looking for a free ride. But charging a premium for postage is taking the pee.    Same goes for EBay sellers.

Well, on a £20 order they were charging about £8.50 postage via courier!

Pisssssssssssssssss

[Friskle]

Always annoys me store postage costs, I sent a small kit boxed by signed for, it cost me around £3 odd at the time, yet, when the store originally sent it to me, postage was £7.50.

It';s easy , money for nothing for them, quick n easy extra income.

[malc]

credit cards use to cover purchase over £100.00, I think some still do --- worth thinking about if you spend a lot

[flybywire]

HK are no better really, they seem to charge a minimum of £5.50 on delivery even if it';s less than £5 and very small components, i.e 6" Jiffy bag.  It';s only because the bits still usually work out cheaper than UK suppliers, or are just out of stock/not stocked in UK.
I know folk moan a lot about HK being out of stock, but at least they admit it is!  Half the UK online stores I';ve used only tell you on placing the order!

[Rafter]

Interesting replies.  I think the bottom line is that legally the seller owns the item until delivered.

If you pay "insurance", you';re basically just helping the seller, it should really be him who insures the item for his own protection.

Under the DSR, the seller really hasn';t got a leg to stand on if the goods don';t arrive.

[philtrum]

Thanks Guys and Gals

will have to find a good module for opencart postage, think  ive found one, then i can set some rules around postage charges against item basket value to ensure its covered

I often loose money on postage, as i keep the charges as low as i can, by the time you add decent padded envelopes, labeling etc, alongside the way the post office love to charge you extra if its 1g heavier, or 1mm thicker lol

but, I just want to ensure i get the service right for you guys and gals

Interesting theres a mix of I want free/cheap postage and dont mind if the item is a little more expensive and others who what cheap item and dont mind paying for recorded posting

I will never be able to match china, but hopefully the speed of postage and services I offer are enough to differentiate me.

Thanks again for the info
Phil

[Hands0n]

Phil
Don';t worry about matching China. Your pre and post sales support will make you a legend in your own time    Your reputation will spread by word of mouth. 

I personally think that competitive prices are essential. Delivery pro rated to the value of the goods just makes sense to me.  I';d hate to order £100 of stuff only for it to disappear without any security or cover. DSR puts you, as a seller, under pressure to ensure delivery, but you';ve got to make a few beans out of the deal also or it simply isn';t worth doing.

I guess its all about either free delivery - which isn';t any such thing, the price has to reflect the cost of the delivery somehow. Or be transparent and show delivery charges, tied to value of goods makes sense to me.

[flybywire]

I';m no alan sugar, but isn';t it a simple case of swings and roundabouts, maybe lose a little on the small stuff, Make it back on the big stuff?

Capitalism meets socialism.

[Britishguy]

what i used to do was disable certain shipping if the value was over a certain value

or like FBW said