Quote from: coldguinnessman on Thursday,April 22, 2021, 10:17:19 are you saying that if the motors spin the esc is ok?  when looking at some of the first attempt flying videos it appears that one motor isn't spinning as quick at the others. i may be mistaken.  i am thinking that if i am going to redo all joints i should use the new esc?

it's hard to tell from your short video, but it looks to me like the major issue is PIDs - the quad tries to correct itself but just ends up making the oscillations larger.  I would try googling "betaflight PIDs for 10" quad" or whatever yours is.

if the ESC for one motor was damaged I would expect one corner to be dropping constantly, which doesn't seem to be the case.

I would be inclined to try new PIDs with your current ESC & if you're still having problems then maybe think about switching it out then.

If the motors spin as expected in BF (PROPS OFF) i.e do they all respond at virtually the same time to a slight raising of throttle? There might be a slight variation going from sop to very slow rotation but they should all run at same speed if you use BF when raising the throttle in BF (Not tx). If you are trying to check using the tx then the quad will be trying to level it's self and may raise 1 motor speed to try and achieve level, if a bit of extra speed doesn't level it the FC will keep adding power till it achieves level!!!!! So test with props off on bench in BF to start with.

ESC are not cheap so I would try and test existing ones first. If it's not working then replace, it's normally fairly easy to see in test if an esc if faulty as either 1 motor wont spin at all or will be really really jerky.

From your short vid it does look like PIDs are way off. BF is setup for 5" quads that respond quickly. With yours being, what 10" or 8" it's takes more effort to change speed of motors as they can't speed up or slow down same as 5" so the PIDs need to be set for a slower system if you see what I mean. As Badger1 said try a google search for BF PIDs and 10" props - but try to get PIDs that are for the same version of BF you are running.

I found some PIDs that might be of use:

https://github.com/iNavFlight/inav/wiki/Default-values-for-different-type-of-aircrafts

scroll down to "450 Size:"

note that the variable names have changed - details in the first paragraph

I quite fancy something with bigger props - 10-12" - so I'll be interested to hear how you get on  :)

thank you.  feeling a bit out of my depth.  this is a screenshot of my pid tuning screen in betaflight.  can i just experiment with the sliders?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e62defzewMUvov5F9

Quote from: coldguinnessman on Wednesday,April 28, 2021, 14:01:11 thank you.  feeling a bit out of my depth.  this is a screenshot of my pid tuning screen in betaflight.  can i just experiment with the sliders?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e62defzewMUvov5F9

PID tuning is not easy. First thing to do on BF is to create a backup. Go to CLI tab and type dump all that should give you a list of all the parameters and what they are set to. Now on the bottom there should be a link to save to a file. Save the list somewhere you can find it in future as if all goes wrong you can get back to where you are now in a few clicks.

As badger1 said the pids he linked to suggest the following as a starting point:
450 Size:

Weight: ~1200g (with battery)
Props: 10x4.5
Battery: 3s 5200mAh
PIDs:

set p_pitch = 90
set i_pitch = 34
set d_pitch = 54
set p_roll = 90
set i_roll = 34
set d_roll = 54
set p_yaw = 70
set i_yaw = 20
set d_yaw = 0
set p_level = 22
set i_level = 15
set d_level = 75

If you copy all the 'set' lines and paste them into the cli, hit return, then type save.
Now very very tentatively give it a test flight, be very gentle with the controls. See if it has the same oscillations as before. I assume the Flight controller is secured down?

Hope that helps?

Thanks.  copied all dump setting to file.  copied/pasted pids and got the following error

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can i just remove the last 3 lines and save?

Quote from: coldguinnessman on Saturday,May 01, 2021, 14:02:32 can i just remove the last 3 lines and save?

probably.  what do you get if you type "get p_level" / "get i_level" / "get d_level" ?

it could be that those variables don't exist in this version of BetaFlight

Quote from: coldguinnessman on Saturday,May 01, 2021, 14:02:32 can i just remove the last 3 lines and save?

I would guess so. I am assuming that the PIDs that badger1 suggested and I posted are for a different version of BetaFlight. Hence the last 3 parameters are not supported in the version of BF you have.
As with any BetaFlight settings they are version dependant to a degree.
NOTE I have just realised that the PIDS posted were iNav PIDs so they could be way off!!!!
OK what version of BF are you running?
If it's v4.0.0 then have a look at the tuning guide on the wiki here: https://github.com/betaflight/betaflight/wiki/4.0-Tuning-Notes it mainly talks about filters for 7" plus props but it might give you some clues.
It's quite difficult to find PIDs for an F450 type quad as they are not that popular any more. I have one but it's running a DJi V2 Naza controller and PIDs will be completely different.

One thing I have found is this: https://intofpv.com/t-initial-pid-settings-for-10-quad--12965
It seems to suggest that iNav has default settings for a 10" quad so the pids etc will be much more stable. You should be able to flash iNav onto your board - not that I have played with iNav.

If you want to stick with BF then I would try increasing the P by 30-40% over standard as with slow responding props P needs to be bigger to have more control. PID control loops are quite tricky but fundamentally the P term is the largest influence as that is what it used to get from current position to the commanded position, the other terms are to stop overshoot and then damp out errors over time. So the critical starting point is to tune the P, then tweak the other terms.
As long as you have a cli backup of your current setup I would try iNav and it's setup for 10" props.
Sorry to mislead you on the pids.

Quote from: ched on Saturday,May 01, 2021, 21:53:41 NOTE I have just realised that the PIDS posted were iNav PIDs so they could be way off!!!!

I'm pretty sure BF & iNav PIDs work interchangeably - I'll grab the ones from my 7" BF & iN quads in a while & check.

Quote from: chedOne thing I have found is this: https://intofpv.com/t-initial-pid-settings-for-10-quad--12965
It seems to suggest that iNav has default settings for a 10" quad so the pids etc will be much more stable. You should be able to flash iNav onto your board - not that I have played with iNav.

I did notice that iNav had 10" presets the other day, but Nav doesn't have support for as wide a range of FCs as BF & I'm not sure the OP's Mamba board would be supported or I would have suggested it.

BetaFlight:



iNav:



so the 'P' values are pretty similar.  I & D are comparatively much less important & the differences probably say more about my lack of tuning skill than anything.

but it looks like iNav *does* support Mamba FCs:



so given the type of quad you have - ie it's not really the sort you're going to be racing through gates with or doing much acro - I would highly recommend you put iNav on it over BetaFlight.  it has far more support for baro/GPS functions - ALT/POS HOLD, RTH, etc. - which seem more suited to your quad type.

Thanks for all your help. Have played around with the p and d gain slider and quad appears a bit more stable on 1.4 setting. Have still managed to break a rotor and battery holder so will have to wait for replacements until I can trial anymore settings. Will use the time to learn how to use blackbox.

Am reluctant to move from Betaflight as I may also want to move to smaller drones in the future. Main priority is to practice flying before I fit a gimbal and camera.

Quote from: coldguinnessman on Saturday,May 08, 2021, 11:23:29 Am reluctant to move from Betaflight as I may also want to move to smaller drones in the future. Main priority is to practice flying before I fit a gimbal and camera.

the difference in terms of manual flying is really not that much - all the controls work exactly the same.

BF has the edge for Racing/Acro flying & if you like to tune your quad to the Nth degree, but you'd need to be a pretty sh*t hot pilot to take full advantage.

iNav has better GPS flight modes & support for more platforms - eg larger quads, planes, etc.

Quote from: coldguinnessman on Saturday,May 08, 2021, 11:23:29 Am reluctant to move from Betaflight as I may also want to move to smaller drones in the future. Main priority is to practice flying before I fit a gimbal and camera.

As long as you have a backup (dump /all) in cli and your Flight Controller supports iNav you can flash iNav on it, give it a try on 10" settings, if you don't like it you can just flash BetaFlight back and reload your backup and you are back with BF in about 5 mins!!!
It's not like flashing sets things in stone you can chop and change no problems but make sure you have a backup first!!!!