Quote from: relativenewbyseb on Monday,April 06, 2020, 11:31:36 So a question, why would in acro mode when I pitch forwards and release the stick the quad slowly returns to centre and sometimes even beyond? I was thinking it was just the wind yesterday and because self level wasn't on it just carried on blowing it further back but with no wind this morning I feel like it's still doing it, also don't feel like it happens with roll [emoji848]

what PIDs are you using?  if your pitch is drifting back you might need a bit more I-term, assuming everything is calibrated as Ched says.

my Martian is much the same as yours (BF 4.1) & the default PIDs seem pretty good - as far as I can tell with my limited experience, but a more experienced friend of mine has flown it & says it's fine.  but I have noticed the pitch drifting back to level in Acro mode - I didn't leave it long enough to see if it went back past level! - so I increased I-term on pitch a little (+10 I think) which has improved things.

here are my PIDs if you're interested:

Cheers for the replies guys.
In terms of being in acro I'm sure it definitely is as that's default in bf anyway and haven't got any overriding modes on in the third position of that mode switch
I will have a look at the gyro traces now[emoji106]
OK that's interesting that you had similar, the wind maybe could've caused that little bit beyond just returning to be fair so will have to see, cheers for sharing your values I shall also compare them, to be fair I haven't touched anything in knowing but yeah
Also is that I term for pitch including the +10 as I think that's what mine started at anyway?

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Quote from: relativenewbyseb on Monday,April 06, 2020, 17:08:19 OK that's interesting that you had similar, the wind maybe could've caused that little bit beyond just returning to be fair so will have to see, cheers for sharing your values I shall also compare them, to be fair I haven't touched anything in knowing but yeah
Also is that I term for pitch including the +10 as I think that's what mine started at anyway?

well, the wind will obviously cause the quad to drift relative to the ground, but the gyro's should really hold the pitch & roll angles constant in Acro, so long as the PIDs are about right.

I *thought* I'd put +10 on the pitch I-term, but if you have the same stock settings on yours (you have a Mamba F405, right?) maybe I forgot to save it or something - lol.  it seems like such a long time since I last flew.

it wasn't super-quick to come back to level, but it was noticeable.  if I was going fast-ish in a straight line I would have to keep nudging the nose down to keep it from rising - at a guess it would probably have come back to level in about 5s.

Yeah so I went for +5 from the original setting of 93 just to see, no difference sadly. Also this value  would change it for both forwards and backwards right... But upon doing more testing it's only in pitching forward, so it automatically is coming back and then going beyond level, when I pitch backwards it actually increases[emoji848][emoji848]very odd

And interesting on the wind side of things cheers for clearing that up
Yes I am using the mamba f405

Other thing is it holds level when in angle mode and doesn't drift unnecessarily backwards or forwards etc

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It does sound like gyro drift but I doubt both of you have it.
OK so I don't really tune my quads very much but I did about 1 year pid tuning control systems way back in early 90's 
Fundamentally the bigger P the faster the system responds to changes. If P is too big you get oscillations.
The I term sort of damps down P as it gets close to the set point (demanded position). The bigger the earlier it Damps the P gain (reduces) Too little and it fails to get to set point too much and you get overshoot.
The D term  was used for correcting for an offset of the set point vs actual position.
OOPS that needed correcting sorry.

The above is in relation to a slow temperature control system that I worked on.
Quads are so much faster reacting it makes it difficult without using blackbox logs. Even then it can be tricky.
If you can see if you can get a blackbox log as you could post that and we could have a look. Can't remember if you have an onboard blackbox storage chip or sd card?

If you are nudging forward to keep at the same angle then something is wrong as in Rate mode that should not happen. Oh that brings back a very vague memory of having same issue but it was a few years ago. If i remember correctly it was my tx! It was a flySky i6 and it had an issue with a potentiometer wearing out or sticking so when sticks centered the tx output a small signal.

Check you rx signals in BF and move sticks about and make sure they come back to 1500. Maybe calibrate sticks on tx?

I've gone on a bit Oops, well it's a break from working 

Quote from: ched on Monday,April 06, 2020, 18:16:58 It does sound like gyro drift but I doubt both of you have it.

...

The I term was used for correcting for an offset of the set point vs actual position

I'm not saying the *gyro* is drifting, but that the pitch angle is drifting away from the setpoint & needs more I-term gain so that the relatively small error winds up/integrates over time.

Quote from: undefinedIf you are nudging forward to keep at the same angle then something is wrong as in Rate mode that should not happen.

see from 10:23:

Quote from: badger1 on Monday,April 06, 2020, 18:35:32 I'm not saying the *gyro* is drifting, but that the pitch angle is drifting away from the setpoint & needs more I-term gain so that the relatively small error winds up/integrates over time.

see from 10:23:

I wrote the PID letters in the wrong order OOPS corrected now, thanks.

I realise you are not saying the gyro is drifting that was my initial guess but as both of you have it it is very unlikely.

As your painless360 vid and my amended post say too little I term and it fails to get to set point.

The i term induced error does get bigger but normally in a bigger way over time. So the small error at first then gets bigger and faster. It's called i term windup and i term relax helps reduce it after i term is set correctly.

Anyway I think you might well have the solution in upping the i term a bit at a time. Remember to check motor temps after a test flight.

Quote from: ched on Monday,April 06, 2020, 18:52:10 The i term induced error does get bigger but normally in a bigger way over time. So the small error at first then gets bigger and faster. It's called i term windup and i term relax helps reduce it after i term is set correctly.

sorry, I meant error as difference between setpoint & actual, but yes, you're quite right, too much I-term gain can cause noise to wind up over time.

can you tell I've had too much time on my hands lately & have been watching PID theory videos on YT? 

Quote from: relativenewbyseb on Monday,April 06, 2020, 18:00:40 Yeah so I went for +5 from the original setting of 93 just to see, no difference sadly. Also this value  would change it for both forwards and backwards right... But upon doing more testing it's only in pitching forward, so it automatically is coming back and then going beyond level, when I pitch backwards it actually increases[emoji848][emoji848]very odd

you might need to bump it a bit more than +5 to see any noticeable difference, but yes, it should work both directions, not just forwards.

it *shouldn't* make any difference, but does the quad roughly balance in the middle?  ie you don't have the battery right at the back or something?

Well I'm glad this issue gave an outlet for your pid tuning interests, but sadly I'm a fool and it was the simplest suggestion from ched that has solved this[emoji28][emoji28] [emoji849][emoji849]
So checking the receiver traces in bf and I find that the centre position is around 1480 something ffs, I distinctly remember calibrating them all to 1500 originally so must've been a fool and pressed some things /trim buttons
Anyway once again problem solved, cheers guys [emoji106]

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Glad you sorted it. Always good to have a go at remote fault finding  Certainly gives me a much needed break from working.
Happy flying and stay safe.

Well latest update I had to return the emax transporter goggles...
About a week in they lost the actual emax logo on startup and only the red and black of the logo were there, thought that'd be fine so carried on, then the battery monitor would show full/half full/empty with no relation to the actual amount of battery left resulting in three times the vtx signal being lost to fuzzy screen and then 5 seconds later black and only fan working even though full battery had been shown. Luckily each time I was close enough to the ground/soft enough landing not to worry about cutting power straight away!
And then they just died completely about two weeks ago!
So awaiting refund on those and thought I'd upgrade to some diversity and dvr without spending too much so got some quanum cyclops diversity off ebay for a good deal which arrived today [emoji106]
Better picture than the emax imo and although they're quite a bit bulkier that's not really an issue for me, plus the bonus of being able to use some old unused nimh from my cars as their battery pack [emoji108]

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All looks good. Now you can get some dvr footage when you are trying out stuff too risky for the gopro 

One thing I noticed was your rx antennas. Ideally they should be a 90 degrees to each other not parrallel. I normally put them horizontally on the front arms facing backwards, as the arms are at an angle the rx antennas tend to be at about 80 degrees to each other. You can also do it on rear arms facing forwards.

Happy flying. Looks like we might get some wind free weather coming over next few days     

Quote from: ched on Wednesday,April 22, 2020, 22:37:09 All looks good. Now you can get some dvr footage when you are trying out stuff too risky for the gopro 

One thing I noticed was your rx antennas. Ideally they should be a 90 degrees to each other not parrallel. I normally put them horizontally on the front arms facing backwards, as the arms are at an angle the rx antennas tend to be at about 80 degrees to each other. You can also do it on rear arms facing forwards.

Happy flying. Looks like we might get some wind free weather coming over next few days     

Ah yes this is one of the reasons I'd thought about it just for recovery wise stuff, I've gotta remount the gopro after it came off in a meeting with a tree[emoji102]
Interesting you should say this as yeah I've seen in numerous places about the rx antenna but at the moment I haven't gone anywhere where I've gone out of signal from the tx wise, vtx runs out before that around me with plenty of trees haha


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DVR for crash location is very handy       
One thing, get used to the play back controls as I'm always in a panic to find downed quad asap as battery may die before you can get in range to hear the buzzer.   

Very fortunate that I live pretty remotely and with plenty of space to fly within our land, so the recent weather was perfect opportunity to get some practice in and hit the occasional gap in the trees! (the rest of the time I was crashing into them...)
Here's some footage from atop my drone.

https://youtu.be/cQlDJRcJp0E

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Beautiful place you have there. I'm so jealous  Nice scraggle dodging.
I can image you having great fun there. Might be worth investing in a BIG stick for when it gets stuck in a tree 
Nice.

Yes very fortunate to be at my parents still, lockdown life is much easier when already living pretty socially distant [emoji106]
Funny you should say that about the big stick, we have used a variety of footballs/tennis balls/rugby balls to retrieve it a good few times from the trees. All part of the fun!

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A tennis ball attached to some string/rope can be very helpful to throw through the branches so you can pull the branches from below
Must admit we have a small garden but I recently received a Mobula 6 and it's is helping me maintain what little sanity I have      I think I have put about 200 single packs through it so far and it's holding up amazingly well. Just a few props with dings in and a battery. I am so glad it arrived before lockdown.

Keep posing the vids mate, it's great to see and gives you a record of your improved flying.

nice flying - kind of a target-rich environment tree-wise 

lovely location too - I am most envious.    (<-- intended to be green with envy, not nausea )

https://youtu.be/29zwok33NxQ

Latest compilation of stuff I've been up to, this time less obstacle avoiding and going more for the scenic stuff!
A bit of sitting around on coast path walks with the dogs waiting for noone to be around is always fun too [emoji3][emoji3]
I'm quite happy with how these shots come out despite it being a more freestyle/racing quad than a camera drone after all, can tell in one location there was some serious wind to contend with aswell!

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So after today's outing, and ensuing dip in the salty drink, I have tested the fc with connection to the computer with a positive result as I can see the quad move on betaflight. Next step to test the rest of the components tomorrow before seeing, if all is ok, if it fancies getting back in the air [emoji3]
If I manage that I will feel very lucky indeed!

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I got my quad so muddy earlier in the year that I ended up having to rinse it under the tap, & it doesn't seem any the worse for it.   I did make sure it was thoroughly dry before I put any electricity near it again though!

do make sure you rinse the salt out of it thoroughly!

I can imagine mud being a pain in the connectors for definite!
Well sadly I believe my vtx has bitten the dust, checked solder joints a few times as getting no lights on it upon power up but no change...
Everything else functioning as normal and cleaned thoroughly
Interestingly I put the multimeter on the battery and 3 cells were all the same at 3.84 but one registered at 1.5 and falling [emoji23]

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So slight change with the vtx, had a brief spell of it on /flickering as if a bad connection again... Now when I depress the button one of the indicator lights lights up dimly but only when pressing the hutton[emoji848][emoji848] confusing

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Quote from: relativenewbyseb on Wednesday,May 27, 2020, 17:41:52 So slight change with the vtx, had a brief spell of it on /flickering as if a bad connection again... Now when I depress the button one of the indicator lights lights up dimly but only when pressing the hutton[emoji848][emoji848] confusing

sounds like it might be damp still.  give it a few days on a warm windowsill (or similar) to dry out completely,  no more electricity until you've done that!

you might get lucky, you might not.  but powering it on whilst the internals of switches & suchlike may still be damp is just going to make it less likely to recover.

I have flown since the swim but only los as the vtx has unfortunately I think died... So I'll be getting another one on order along with another vifly buzzer as sadly all the circuitry seems to be fine and I re-soldered a small battery for it but the actual buzzer part no longer functions [emoji849][emoji849]

From the days before that whole escapade I got some more footage and just had to try the second location because of how glass like the water was! Surprised how hitch free it was taking off and landing from the front of my kayak whilst being towed!! [emoji16]

https://youtu.be/x4SODmqNhsg

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Wondering what people's thoughts are for a replacement vtx, unmanned tech sold out of both thefpv mini vtx I had and the chaos vtx I had been looking at, don't wanna be spending loads ideally
Thoughts on eachine vtxs?
Saw the tx805 available on bang good I believe in the uk
Or the akk infinite is available from UK too
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Have had a few eachine vtx  , never had any problems other than wrecking coax.
Newer system of those micro connectors for coax looks better.

Anyways .... banggood now got uk warehouse ??!!

Ps when I need replacement parts I tend to buy 2 of , as it were , .... if I've broke something once .....
  

Quote from: relativenewbyseb on Friday,June 05, 2020, 18:43:33 Wondering what people's thoughts are for a replacement vtx, unmanned tech sold out of both thefpv mini vtx I had and the chaos vtx I had been looking at, don't wanna be spending loads ideally
Thoughts on eachine vtxs?
Saw the tx805 available on bang good I believe in the uk
Or the akk infinite is available from UK too
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The TX805 is OK and comes with MMCX pigtail and a dipole antenna, it even goes to 800mW (in countries that allow  ) for £16.
The AKK Infinite DVR goes up to 1000 mW and has a built in DVR    seems like a great vtx with dvr especially for £18. The AKK vtx have had some great reviews. Only thing to watch on either of them is to make sure they can get some airflow to keep them cool.
I would go for the AKK just for the DVR